American Cars VS European Cars

[early93viper]

check the profile

Can you list the tracks you use please ?
IF you are claiming that your 93 Viper beat those cars then I have a few supplementary questions.
PS: I was in the Viper at the European launch in Stockholm

It's cool that you race and are not just a magazine junky.

My home track is Heartland Park Topeka I have also been to Mid-America motorplex. Both have a variety of bends.

I try to keep my viper on tracks with a lot of runoff that are close.

Sorry but the track must have had some long straights and not very many tight sections. The Viper is NOT a particularly stable car in twistin gsections unless set up VERY stiff in the rear and quite soft in the front which then makes for a nightmare on undulating roads !! What suspension set up are you running ? What corner weights ? Damping and sprign rates ? Anti roll bar stiffness ?
BTW, what Elise ??

Sorry but your completly wrong on the setup of the viper. I like most track day vipers go full stiff in front and 2/5 on the rear. The Viper actually handles amazingly once you dial in the suspention (a two day job........dam koni's). Trust me: no role, a little understeer, and it's really stable powering out of a corner.

Even when I autocross my car (a very tight track) it is very stable. Hard to judge where cones are (hard to see over hood) at times but very stable.

The viper was made to be a track car. It is most at home on the track.

At least you recongise it IS a trade off and to win a race you dont' NEED the best handling car OR the most torque or revs but the best package matching the track conditions.

I agree.

Might be worth creating a thread to share the knowledge on the car, track, setup and usage fo your Viper rather than consuming space here and avoiding the US/Eureop compairson inputs your posts will no doubt generate. At least in it's own thread we can (hopefully) evade the patriotic posts

I have created some threads and am not saying the viper is the end all car to have. Not even saying I would rather have an American car over any europeon (give me an enzo or a 430 any day). I just feel that the USA has some great cars especially for the money.

And remember a lot of people in america track there car. I love the race track and would be there every day if I could.

[Matra et Alpine]

My home track is Heartland Park Topeka I have also been to Mid-America motorplex. Both have a variety of bends.

used the UCP tracks file for Google earth.
Both your circuits have straights over 1/2 mile long !!
No wonder the torque out of the corners helps
Poor Elise would be running out of breath by the time it got 2/3 along those

Snetterton or Thruxton are the only ones and even then they're not that straight ! Donnington, Brands GP and Silverstone are at least 100 yards shorter than that !!!

What the google can't tell is the track undulations. How much height variations ? camber ? banking ?? Is there a good 3d of the tracks. You've got me intrigued

[Zytek_Fan]

I like the straight at the old Nurburgring

[henk4]

If you really want to think like that, go right ahead.

how generously liberal, and that coming from you.

[Cadillac Imaj]

Yes, I agree.

[Vaigra]

Yes, I agree.

with...?

[early93viper]

used the UCP tracks file for Google earth.
Both your circuits have straights over 1/2 mile long !!
No wonder the torque out of the corners helps
Poor Elise would be running out of breath by the time it got 2/3 along those

Snetterton or Thruxton are the only ones and even then they're not that straight ! Donnington, Brands GP and Silverstone are at least 100 yards shorter than that !!!

What the google can't tell is the track undulations. How much height variations ? camber ? banking ?? Is there a good 3d of the tracks. You've got me intrigued

MAM has very little height variations, but some off camber turns, etc. here is a buddy of mine in a lightly modified older (1990 maybe) Mustang (shocks, exhaust, Brakes) chasing an elise:

http://www.ownzracing.com/mamdayz/MA...1-05-Elise.wmv

Here is what he wrote about the track lap:
Elise's weigh less than 2000 lbs and they have 190 hp for less than 10.5 lbs per hp, compared to my car's 3200 with ~280 hp for about 11.4 lbs per hp, and I was actually surprised to be able to even keep UP in the straights.

here is the video from the elises point of view

http://home.comcast.net/~theisenj987/mam.asf



Heartland park has a lot of undulations but I can't find a current video on it. All of the video I have found are with the old track configuration.

[Fleet 500]

how generously liberal, and that coming from you.

That's because it's almost Halloween.

- Fleet
(A big Halloween enthusiast)

[Matra et Alpine]

MAM has very little height variations, but some off camber turns, etc. here is a buddy of mine in a lightly modified older (1990 maybe) Mustang (shocks, exhaust, Brakes) chasing an elise:

Those are great vids . Thanks.

I would suggest to the Elise driver that he will get faster times if he takes the sequence with a slower entry and avoid the midturn break to prevent understeer He's losing a LOT of corner momentum there that in a light low-powered (relatively!) car you dont' want to do. Or consider left foot braking in the middle of the first part of the sequence to pitch the car and increase outer grip ?

WHat tyre sizes and types is the 'stang running ? He seemed to be getting a fairly progressive break-away at the limit. Looked nice.

That's a VERY flat track for sure. even the camber is barely noticable !
Compare it with http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...pine+knockhill . I've still to get the Brands in-car shots rendered but it is equally "hilly". Abotu the only flat major track in teh UK was Silverstone but they built the "bomb hole" many years back to give it more of a challenge.

[early93viper]

Those are great vids . Thanks.

I would suggest to the Elise driver that he will get faster times if he takes the sequence with a slower entry and avoid the midturn break to prevent understeer He's losing a LOT of corner momentum there that in a light low-powered (relatively!) car you dont' want to do. Or consider left foot braking in the middle of the first part of the sequence to pitch the car and increase outer grip ?

WHat tyre sizes and types is the 'stang running ? He seemed to be getting a fairly progressive break-away at the limit. Looked nice.

That's a VERY flat track for sure. even the camber is barely noticable !
Compare it with http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...pine+knockhill . I've still to get the Brands in-car shots rendered but it is equally "hilly". Abotu the only flat major track in teh UK was Silverstone but they built the "bomb hole" many years back to give it more of a challenge.

That's interesting advice although I am sure you know that it is hard to advise someone on a track you just have seen in a video. Come to MAM with us and I will buy you a pint. Or whatever you call it.

The Mustang is on kumho MXs I believe. Not sure the sizes.

Also I can't get your video to work. It would be interesting to see. Please post.

[Matra et Alpine]

That's interesting advice although I am sure you know that it is hard to advise someone on a track you just have seen in a video. Come to MAM with us and I will buy you a pint. Or whatever you call it.

you're on !!
We actually do a fair bit of advising in the clubs based on video. It's a LOT easier on a track you know inside out tho'
re coming to MAM ... same for any track over here But hot drinks are best at Knockhill, it's like racing in a shower with the fridge door open

Also I can't get your video to work. It would be interesting to see. Please post.

DAMN, the site I had it hosted out of has pulled it for some reason - prolly too much traffic Looks like the b*gg*rs have pulled ALL my vids !!! )
PM me your messenger handle I'm not sure when I'll get that file uploaded to somewhere else quickly....

[henk4]

That's because it's almost Halloween.

- Fleet
(A big Halloween enthusiast)

may every day be Halloween for you

[Fleet 500]

may every day be Halloween for you

Thanks. I'll try my best to make every day Halloween.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Coming soon... photos of the Hallowed Haunting Grounds (a local yard haunt).

[660z]

American vs European, the grass is always greener on the other side I say, there are some very serious performance cars to come out of the USA, most europeans miss the point about American cars, especially the sporting ones......................they are built to a price and therefore give you more bang for ya buck than any other country on the planet

[JakRcr]

European Cars are better because they aren't the size of houses and do more than 1mpg

The new SSC from the US will begin to blow away the European competition, we just finished Road & Track, look for us in the Ampersand section...did I mention the standard Aero gets 24 mpg highway miles?