Saleen S7

[Godlaus]

I'm not that overly suprised that the S7 can do it, as every single one of those 3945298365293862349 scoops creates a little bit of downforce, the shape of the car itself greatly helps, its small spoiler does a good bit too. The car was "designed by the wind" (Not exact quote, but I think that was said by Steve Saleen, in an interview with Road and Track about the S7).

No, you don't need a ton of scoops. just one big wing

[What]

The enzo wasn't meant to be straight line fast (even if it is), it's meant for the track.

Not meant to be straight line fast? Are you kidding me? Ferrari understands the importance of 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. If "straight line acceleration" wasn't a priority for the Enzo, it would have been geared differently...also, it wouldn't have LAUNCH control. The Enzo was meant to be straight line fast AND fast around a track. The builders of the Enzo wanted it to be fast in many types of races.

It's only 1 liter less than the saleen, with 2 more pistons, and has just as much as a rumble...It's Top Gear's record holder for around their personalized track...

The S7 has a V8...the Enzo has a V12...that's 4 more pistons buddy. Also, the S7's engine was built strategically large and excessively strong to withstand future turbo applications that Steve Saleen had planned for the car. Steve Saleen has future plans for a 1000 hp S7. Let's see an Enzo keep up. Hell, the Enzo can't beat the 750 hp S7. It's highly likely that the 750 hp S7 TT would be Top Gear's record holder around their track if given the chance. I think the SuperCharged Mosler Photon would knock the Enzo off too.

...it creates just over 2500 lbs of downforce at 200+mph.

No, that's wrong. The 2001 S7 created 2900+ lbs of downforce when travelling between 165-185 mph. At speeds above 185, downforce is reduced to approach top speed....just like in other modern-day supercars. The 2005 S7 Twin-Turbo produces even more downforce but with less drag. NO OTHER PRODUCTION CAR IN THE WORLD can match the amount of downforce the S7 produces. The Enzo doesn't come close. I don't know for sure who would win between the S7 and Enzo at a track, but the S7 has the better track body....and Ferrari knows it...which is why Ferrari didn't enter the Enzo into races, but instead created the Maserati MC12 (MCC), which is literally an Enzo with a different body shell that is better suited for the track. The Enzo's body didn't produce enough downforce to be track competitve, but the Moserati MCC does. Notice how the MC12's shape resembles the S7's.

You should note that the Saleen S7R (the ultra successful track version of the S7) and the production S7 have the EXACT SAME SHAPE...minus the wing. If the S7R dominates TRACK cars, why wouldn't the S7 dominate the Enzo? Also, the 2005 S7 Twin Turbo is MORE POWERFUL than the S7R. Think about that.

Godlaus, you're so wrong.

[Godlaus]

Not meant to be straight line fast? Are you kidding me? Ferrari understands the importance of 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. If "straight line acceleration" wasn't a priority for the Enzo, it would have been geared differently...also, it wouldn't have LAUNCH control. The Enzo was meant to be straight line fast AND fast around a track. The builders of the Enzo wanted it to be fast in many types of races.

What do you think ferrari aimed for in creating the Enzo? I'll give you a hint, it's modeled after a formula one car. It's fast in the straight, but even faster in around the track. If they had only aimed for straight line, the first gear would hit 61 mph, like the ford GT. It's not meant to be the fastest in the straight line, but rather a competitor to take the crown for 2-3 years, and be the track champion for the next 10-15 years. Launch control is there because the ferrari doesn't have a manually operated clutch, so it can't do drop clutch starts.

The S7 has a V8...the Enzo has a V12...that's 4 more pistons buddy. Also, the S7's engine was built strategically large and excessively strong to withstand future turbo applications that Steve Saleen had planned for the car. Steve Saleen has future plans for a 1000 hp S7. Let's see an Enzo keep up. Hell, the Enzo can't beat the 750 hp S7. It's highly likely that the 750 hp S7 TT would be Top Gear's record holder around their track if given the chance. I think the SuperCharged Mosler Photon would knock the Enzo off too.

Did Steve Saleen plan for a turbo application? I don't remember him ever saying that when he revealed the S7. Any evidence to back that up? Besides, the enzo is a better enginereed car. My bad on the piston thing, though the s7 was a 10 cylinder

No, that's wrong. The 2001 S7 created 2900+ lbs of downforce when travelling between 165-185 mph. At speeds above 185, downforce is reduced to approach top speed....just like in other modern-day supercars. The 2005 S7 Twin-Turbo produces even more downforce but with less drag. NO OTHER PRODUCTION CAR IN THE WORLD can match the amount of downforce the S7 produces. The Enzo doesn't come close. I don't know for sure who would win between the S7 and Enzo at a track, but the S7 has the better track body....and Ferrari knows it...which is why Ferrari didn't enter the Enzo into races, but instead created the Maserati MC12 (MCC), which is literally an Enzo with a different body shell that is better suited for the track. The Enzo's body didn't produce enough downforce to be track competitve, but the Moserati MCC does. Notice how the MC12's shape resembles the S7's.

I clearly stated that

it creates just over 2500 lbs of downforce at 200+mph.

So, I'm still right. Besides, if ferrari truly wanted downforce, they would've put a spoiler on their car, and it still creates the most downforce of any production car without a spoiler.

Was that why the MC12 was created? I thought it was more for the production rules thingy. Would they design a car that doesn't meet the size requirements? Still, the maserati came in a close 5th to the S7r's 4th placde in sebring, and beat out one of the other S7s.

You should note that the Saleen S7R (the ultra successful track version of the S7) and the production S7 have the EXACT SAME SHAPE...minus the wing. If the S7R dominates TRACK cars, why wouldn't the S7 dominate the Enzo? Also, the 2005 S7 Twin Turbo is MORE POWERFUL than the S7R. Think about that.

More powerful? Probably, that's why i want to see a S7r against the MC12 at some more endurance races. For a first race, the MC12 did pretty good, and I'm looking foward to more races.

[aNOBLEman]

Well you can put the S7-R against the MC12 and I'll bring a C6-R and beat you both.

If we're comparing S7TT against MC12 then I'd take the S7TT without hesitation. I've seen it in person and I think that it looks even better than the standard S7 with the revised venturi tunnels and revised front spoiler.

[CdocZ]

Well you can put the S7-R against the MC12 and I'll bring a C6-R and beat you both.

If we're comparing S7TT against MC12 then I'd take the S7TT without hesitation. I've seen it in person and I think that it looks even better than the standard S7 with the revised venturi tunnels and revised front spoiler.

C6R........
*Drooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo l*

[Koenigsegg_CC]

I never realised how small the S7 was until i saw 50 Cents video: one crap rapper but one nice car IMO

[Godlaus]

Well you can put the S7-R against the MC12 and I'll bring a C6-R and beat you both.

If we're comparing S7TT against MC12 then I'd take the S7TT without hesitation. I've seen it in person and I think that it looks even better than the standard S7 with the revised venturi tunnels and revised front spoiler.

In sebring, when the MC12 lost 18 laps due to a suspension problem, it still beat various C6rs, and 1 S7R. The C6Rs ran into problems also, though.

S7TT vs MC12?

I'm going to go with the S7 also. MC12 < S7TT < Enzo

[What]

What do you think ferrari aimed for in creating the Enzo? I'll give you a hint, it's modeled after a formula one car. It's fast in the straight, but even faster in around the track. If they had only aimed for straight line, the first gear would hit 61 mph....Launch control is there because the ferrari doesn't have a manually operated clutch, so it can't do drop clutch starts.

Of course straight line performance wasn't the ONLY performance category Ferrari aimed for, no one's that singled minded anymore...but straight-line performance WAS a priority for Ferrari. You make it seem like Ferrari doesn't care about straight line performance. If it didn't, LAUNCH CONTROL would not have been integrated into the Enzo. As we know, launch control is only used when trying to achieve the best acceleration time. F1 cars do not have launch control, because 1/4 mile times and 0-60 don't matter at all to them. Ferrari cares about 0-60. They care about everything....just like Saleen.

Did Steve Saleen plan for a turbo application? I don't remember him ever saying that when he revealed the S7. Any evidence to back that up? Besides, the enzo is a better enginereed car.

Of course you don't remember him saying that, you didn't remember the S7 having 8 cylinders either. You obviously don't know much about the S7, and until you learn about it, it's ignorant of you to say the Enzo is a better engineered car. You're lacking proper knowledge.

At the release of 2001 S7, Steve Saleen kept quiet about future turbo applications planned for the S7. Only recently did he reveal what he had in mind. Here is a snippet about the S7 TT from Road and Track.

April 2005 Road and Track pg 26:"....Saleen claims the 7.0 liter V-8 was designed overbuilt just for this purpose, meaning internal changes consist only of a lower compression ratio and oil squirters..."

If Ferrari truly wanted downforce, they would've put a spoiler on their car, and it still creates the most downforce of any production car without a spoiler.

The Enzo does have a spoiler...

Did you just say that the Enzo creates more downforce than any other production car? Are you nuts? You must be...

And of course Ferrari "truly wanted downforce". Unfortunately, their "unique" design of the Enzo didn't have the superior drag-to-downforce tradeoff that the S7 was able to have. The S7 was made for downforce....hence the extended tail.

I'm going to go with the S7 TT also. Even if the engine is detonating itself. How much boost is the TT running at?

The S7 TT's engine is FAR from detonation. It's running at only 5.5 psi of boost. Don't bash cars until you learn your info.

[RS6]

Any evidence to back that up? Besides, the enzo is a better enginereed car.

But remember, better engineered doesn't necessarily mean 'better car'.

IMO, the only thing the Enzo beats an S7 with is overall 'finesse'. Otherwise, I reckon the S7 is the far superior car.

[Matra et Alpine]

I never realised how small the S7 was until i saw 50 Cents video: one crap rapper but one nice car IMO

Expectations and perceptions are funny things.

I never realised hoW BIG it was till I saw it in race at Knockhill back in 2002 IIRC !!!

This is NOT a small car. It's nearly 5 metres long and 2 metres wide !!!

?? Might it be that "fitty" is a big guy

[Quiggs]

Expectations and perceptions are funny things.

I never realised hoW BIG it was till I saw it in race at Knockhill back in 2002 IIRC !!!

This is NOT a small car. It's nearly 5 metres long and 2 metres wide !!!

?? Might it be that "fitty" is a big guy

It's long and wide, but very low. It only came a little past my waist, and I'm not tall by any means.

[CdocZ]

Just over 40 inches tall. Wierd thing to have memorized (it's only the height that I can remember, but I remember it like my name).

[Godlaus]

Of course straight line performance wasn't the ONLY performance category Ferrari aimed for, no one's that singled minded anymore...but straight-line performance WAS a priority for Ferrari. You make it seem like Ferrari doesn't care about straight line performance. If it didn't, LAUNCH CONTROL would not have been integrated into the Enzo. As we know, launch control is only used when trying to achieve the best acceleration time. F1 cars do not have launch control, because 1/4 mile times and 0-60 don't matter at all to them. Ferrari cares about 0-60. They care about everything....just like Saleen.

That's why I stated that they didn't care about being the best in the 60, but rather a competitor.

Of course you don't remember him saying that, you didn't remember the S7 having 8 cylinders either. You obviously don't know much about the S7, and until you learn about it, it's ignorant of you to say the Enzo is a better engineered car. You're lacking proper knowledge.

Saleen emplys the pushrodasaurus tactic. That's not exactly high engineering standards.

The saleen hits 60 in 3.3, matching the enzo
The saleen hits 100 in 8.9, 2.3 seconds slower than the enzo
The saleen hits the quarter in 11.8, 7 tenths of a second slower than an enzo.
The saleen hits 0 from 60 in 125 feet, 16 feet longer than the enzo
The saleen hits 0 from 80 in 230 feet, 42 feet longer than the enzo
The saleen hits 0 from 100 in 342 feet, 54 feet longer than the enzo
The saleen pulls 0.99 on the slalom, 2 hundreds of a g shorter than the enzo
The saleen runs 70.6 on the slalom, 2.4 mph slower than the enzo
The saleen needs twin turbos to compete with a naturally aspirated ferrari motor.

Ferrari will probably have higher props from me than saleen for a long time. Both employ greatly different, but at the same time, amazing tactics to make a uber-fast supercar.

At the release of 2001 S7, Steve Saleen kept quiet about future turbo applications planned for the S7. Only recently did he reveal what he had in mind. Here is a snippet about the S7 TT from Road and Track.

April 2005 Road and Track pg 26:"....Saleen claims the 7.0 liter V-8 was designed overbuilt just for this purpose, meaning internal changes consist only of a lower compression ratio and oil squirters..."

Then...I leaned something new today.

The Enzo does have a spoiler...

Not to the extent of of saleen's.

Did you just say that the Enzo creates more downforce than any other production car? Are you nuts? You must be...

see below

it still creates the most downforce of any production car without a spoiler.

Any production cars that don't have spoilers. Bad wording on my part. Although, I think I'm getting the f430 and the enzo confused

And of course Ferrari "truly wanted downforce". Unfortunately, their "unique" design of the Enzo didn't have the superior drag-to-downforce tradeoff that the S7 was able to have. The S7 was made for downforce....hence the extended tail.

They could've made an insane amount of downforce with a spoiler, but they didn't. Why not? Beacuse it already outperforms your saleen in the braking duel. The saleen doesn't beat the enzo in cery many categories.

The S7 TT's engine is FAR from detonation. It's running at only 5.5 psi of boost. Don't bash cars until you learn your info.

Is it that low? 200 horses out of 5.5 psi? Hmm....Will be interesting to see this thing in action.

[ruim20]

There is a spoiler there... not an aileron but clearly a spoiler... sorry...

[What]

They could've made an insane amount of downforce with a spoiler, but they didn't. Why not? Beacuse it already outperforms your saleen in the braking duel. The saleen doesn't beat the enzo in cery many categories.

What the f does downforce have to do with braking performance? Downforce creates grip and stability.

You're thinking of drag.