Supercars Annual '69

[dog ear]

Thanks for posting that! I was able to read it okay. I like the '68 Coronet R/T, too. Almost as much as the '69; both had the same 440 engine (and 426-Hemi available).

A good 1/4 mile in that one in the test... 14.01 @ 102.58 mph. I am reminded again of a member here who said "you would be lucky to get 14.5 from a '69 Coronet R/T." It does show how Mopars were underrated in some cases!

I have personally seen a few mid-14s in such cars, Fleet, but, they were dead stock unprepared cars with an as-delivered from factory to dealership tune. Basically just set timing to marks on balancer. Not the best way. LOL!

Re-set timing to proper specs, and dail in carb and you were much faster.

[dog ear]

Here Fleet, (6) well prepared & supertuned cars cicra January, 1969 Car & Driver.

[Fleet 500]

7004 Car Craft
70 Dodge Charger R/T 440+6 Pak

Fleet, not the 1969 R/T but, a 1970 Charger is plenty cool!

Getting into the 12s with only a few basic mods and slicks. Not bad! And these cars were not expensive when new. A good buy.

[Fleet 500]

Here Fleet, (6) well prepared & supertuned cars cicra January, 1969 Car & Driver.

Yes, I have that one. Not the magazine, though, but from the Brooklands Books "Muscle Cars Compared 1966-1970"

They really seemed to like the Hemi Road Runner!

[Fleet 500]

I have personally seen a few mid-14s in such cars, Fleet, but, they were dead stock unprepared cars with an as-delivered from factory to dealership tune. Basically just set timing to marks on balancer. Not the best way. LOL!

Re-set timing to proper specs, and dail in carb and you were much faster.

Yes, with 3.23 gears they typically ran mid-14s. Low-14s with 3.91s and low-14s/high-13s with 4.10s.

Correctly-tuned did make a difference... could pick up something like 3-4 tenths of one second.

Most of the cars I've owned had at least a few mods. Even my Cadillacs. For instance, my '69 Fleetwood has aftermarket dual exhaust and a shift kit. A lower rear axle was installed (3.21s replacing the 2.94s) and the carb has bigger jets.

[dog ear]

Fleet 500; here are the tests for all of the Dodge Coronets crrently on my database. I have not done any updates for quite some time now. Sorry! I do have a few road tests articles that I will post as soon as I can find them.

Dodge Coronet R/T road tests were not that commom by 1969. Many more on Super Bee, Dart Swinger 340, and Charger. In 1969 most of the press went after the Six Pack cars anyway. I have a few of them and will post if you like.

I will post a brief 1968 spec sheet with the R/T 440-4V times for now. Basically the same car. Between the 68/69 it's a hard choice fro me. I like both, although the 1969 seems meaner looking especially from the rear.

"The pair of Queens'' Dodge Super Bee test is from the May, '68 Car Craft issue. Do you have any late 60s Car Craft mags?

[Fleet 500]

Thanks for the attachment and the database info.

I have a few Car Craft magazines. A few from the '60s and a few from the '70s. Not that many.

Yes, I think the '69 Coronet has a more "refined" look both from the front and back. But the engines for the '68 and '69 were essentially the same which is why I like both years. The styling for the '70 was quite a bit different with that unusual front end not to mention the lowering of the compression with some of the engines.

[dog ear]

Here are some interesting (brief) road test figures for you to ponder.

Scan #1 is mostly on the Boss 302 Mustang and the Camaro Z28. Two others are for the Cuda ponycar, and the Dodge and Plymouth Six Packs.

Here is an interesting little tidbit; note the Net and Gross HP figures for select 70-71 pick-up trucks in the bottom left-hand corner. Big difference for all Fords 302-2V, and360-4V / 390-4V. Same for Chevy 307-2V, 350-255 2V, and the 400-310 4V small blocks.

I dont have anymore for the rest of the big four AM manufacturers but I know that they are very similar in comparsion. These figures will be much the same for both cars nd trucks in those years. High-Perf engines were different but the HP spread is about the same.

[dog ear]

I have a few Car Craft magazines. A few from the '60s and a few from the '70s. Not that many.

Do you have any 1967-1970 Mustang tests dealing with the 351, 390, 428 engines?

How about (any) intake manifold, camshaft and tire tests?

Yes, I think the '69 Coronet has a more "refined" look both from the front and back. But the engines for the '68 and '69 were essentially the same which is why I like both years. The styling for the '70 was quite a bit different with that unusual front end not to mention the lowering of the compression with some of the engines.[/QUOTE]

My cousin Ivan briefly owned a new 1970 Coronet R/T 3.23.1 / auto with the dual (functional) ram air hood scoops. It was B5 Blue with black interior. Fast!

[dog ear]

Here are a couple more test briefs...check out the difference in performance between 70-71. That 69 Vette ZL-1 is controversial to say the least. I have a few original ZL-1 Camaro and Vette tests and a few others on the L-88s...

[dog ear]

Here is graphic evidence of 60s tire inadaquacies...if you needed traction in mid 60s than you probably used monster 8.00-15s, or the 9.00-15s pictured. They were so huge and tall that you could,nt generally use them under the pony cars. This is what I remember most street freaks using instead of cheater slicks, which were not generally available. After 1970 you began seeing alot of the wider profile G-60-14, and G60-15s on the streets. Prior to this, you seldom seen the huge Mickeys that were offered in the speed shops.

By the way, the tranny info is interesting also. If you ever wondered why the 4-spd Fords were so much faster in the roadtests than the autos this little piece becomes self-evident. Imagine as much as 50-60 HP loss through the drivetrain? That's alot of speed, man!

[Kitdy]

Why is the vette contraversial? I did not know there were any tests of the ZL-1. I have heard only two were made, and they are in places unknown.

Post up those and the L88 tests please! I love those crazy cars!

[dog ear]

Read this Roger Huntington article on the calculated NET HP figures for both small and big-block Chevies. Mr. Huntington was the first engineer / musclecar guru to document true net horsepower correlations between total vehicle weight and drag strip ET.

Granted, todays computerized figures are closer to the real-world as-installed condition than the original Huntington figures were but that's only 40 years difference in technology. Even so, all of todays calculations are based upon Huntington's studies. His work is even more amazing when you stop and consider that he was in fact a Quadriplegic.

Modern computerized updates Like Hales Formula and numerous others may be more realistic by about 5% or so but who cares? More important than the actual differences in the various formulas and their inherent weaknesses or accurracy is the value of using them in order to derive a basis for comparsion to various era vehicles ased on the cube root relationship of total car weight including driver and the all important ET in quarter mile. Enough said!

[dog ear]

Why is the vette contraversial? I did not know there were any tests of the ZL-1. I have heard only two were made, and they are in places unknown.

Post up those and the L88 tests please! I love those crazy cars!

You are correct about the (two) original Vette tests, but there are in fact several other ZL-1 Camaro tests available with the same engine configuration. Roger Huntington helped arrange and conduct some of those tests and his are highly readable and accurately depicted.

ZL-1 Vette tests are contraversial because there were only two made. Both cars were modified and thus not really comparable to what you could have bought if you had gthe coin, baby. We are talking about muchco dinero, even by 1969 standards.

An L-88 was apparently just as quick if not quicker than the ZL-1 on the street, and fairly close at the track. In all-out race form, the true value of ZL-1 was in weight savings. Can-Am was ZL-1 forte.

[Kitdy]

10 grand for a ZL-1 is pricey as hell. What did L88s go for during the time?