Hey, if you are installing a custom sould system, consider this little thing I learn

[Egg Nog]

The thing is... they're pretty much both right, except they're arguing about different matters conceptually...

Nigel says that, by principles of physics, there technically is some progressive movement by means of the speaker's cone shape. He is correct.

Peter basically says that this is almost too small to even be considered, and would definitely not be noticable in any way at all. He is also correct.


Keep in mind that Nigel tends to argue things like this just for the sake of debate and talking physics. For those of you who think his arguments are entirely serious when applied to a real-world human situation, you're sadly mistaken. I think Matra might fall into this category.

But hell, it's not even as outrageous as another humourous physics-related argument involving the "fastest colour of paint"... but let's not even go there

[whiteballz]

well really its not exactly the colour that would make any difference, unless its black and the heat pushed you forward

it would all be about the air resistance.

[Nigel]

I was just reading back over your arguement, and I think that you are making a number of points purely to try to make yourself credible. The following is a prime example. What does this add to your arguement?

minimal is an understatement
You need to look into 3rd order effects and consider the losses in air turbulence at the shear edge of the diaphragm. 2nd order expansion of air from the speaker will also encounter losses such that I think by the time you add up the losses you'll be seeing the forces in the 10^-9 range

You could have used language that makes sense to a population greater than the 0.1% of people on this forum who are educated in this field. "3rd order effects" "turbulance at the sheer edge of the diaphragm" I know what you are trying to say, and there is a really good reason the early attempt at flight did not succeed using a huge cone and pumping it up and down. There is a lot of loss of energy to turbulance.
This part I love: "you'll be seeing the forces in the 10^-9 range" I assume what you meant by this was in the nanonewton range, but I dont know what country you are from. You could have been talking about dynes, in which case it would be smaller then my scientific vocabulary, but approximately 10^-14N. I have no idea how much force it would produce, but I love how that number is just thrown in there.

[Egg Nog]

well really its not exactly the colour that would make any difference, unless its black and the heat pushed you forward

it would all be about the air resistance.

Nononono... I believe you misunderstood... I said "let's not go there"

The arguements I'm talking about involved massively complex physics, more in-depth than any sane person (sorry Nigel ) would ever care to talk about.

[whiteballz]

i think the same could be said about that post, but i am really just a newt knowledge wise about sound pulses and nanonewtons

[Nigel]

I missed shawn's comment before posting my last comment. I think we can let this one go. I cant seem to find that fastest colour thread... its kinda funny

[NoOne]

well really its not exactly the colour that would make any difference, unless its black and the heat pushed you forward

it would all be about the air resistance.

The colour doesn't matter ... what does matter is the type of wax used and how much.

[Matra et Alpine]

I was just reading back over your arguement, and I think that you are making a number of points purely to try to make yourself credible. The following is a prime example. What does this add to your arguement?

You said your were maths, not engineering.
So rather than trying to explain it in engineering terms which would get harder and woudl still ALWAYS have you seeing only the mathematical possitility I tried to point out to you that I was well aware of first and second order effects and that I wasn't sure that you were contemplating the complexity of the 3rd order effects and the impact THEY would have. So I actually tried to help the discussion by using your terms. I apologise if you saw this as an attack on your understanding of complex systems or as a deliberate attempt to 'confuse' others. it wasn't, it's called empathy

And on the enginnering and physics meets maths front, at the point where the forces shown are in the same magnitude as Brownian motion then the concept of achieving propulsion clearly doesn't hold.

You could have used language that makes sense to a population greater than the 0.1% of people on this forum who are educated in this field. .

Nigel, you need to get serious and understand that 99.99% of the people in this forum gave up on our discussion umpteen posts before that.
We're discussing the fungal infectino on the abdomen of the gnat and all anyone else cares about is the elephant it is sitting on !!!
Oh and the 0.01% still reading are here for the fun of the 'banter', not the facts

[Matra et Alpine]

The colour doesn't matter ... what does matter is the type of wax used and how much.

ah the WEIGHT

hey I missed a good argument about paint color - aw MAN

[paul]

i have been following this constuctive argument all the way and have found it rather amusing most bits confusing but still amusing.

[crisis]

good point. with most ports they have a long tube so that air doesnt go in or out, it just acts as a diaphagm, but if that tube isnt there, as in some speaker box setups, and car window... current, as far as I know.

From how I understand ported enclosures to work I dont see how a simple hole in the baffle does anything to increase bass. I may increase mid and HF volume as they are less prone to phase cancelation.

[crisis]

NOW, your idea COULD gain higher efficiency of you make the car an air PUMP and control the turbulence. So create an intake for the speaker at the front of the car, a connecting flow from front to rear of the speaker and valves to control it. So as the speaker mvoes it draws air IN from the front of the car, as the speaker returns to fully forward position the energy in the speaker motion is used to 'pump' the air past control valves and into the cone of the speaker and then close the valves again and repeat. NOW you are creating an air current and something entirely different to air movement. You may notice there aren't a lot of these around. The reason is gasses don't make good mediums for storing and trasnferring energy ( other than chemically or pressure - which makes most of them liquid )

I think thats what I said in less than technical terms. Im a lowly sales rep.
"The propulsion would resemble that of a jellyfish in this case. Possibly with some valve type thingies (technical term) to allow air to pass through the diaphragm on the forward travel."

[kko]

WHoooo that was fun!

[KnifeEdge_2K1]

is it just me or has no one mentioned the fact the weight of this system would totally offset any gains ... gained

[Egg Nog]

is it just me or has no one mentioned the fact the weight of this system would totally offset any gains ... gained

If you had read any of what's being said, you'd realize that these arguments are all based on a completely different (and rediculously unimportant in this case) level of physics .