Has Porsche Lost Their Edge?

[LeonOfTheDead]

How about a new halo car above the 911 so that they can use that in GT racing?

Something like a Carrera GT?

Would that work?

yes, but I suppose they have a different idea on that.
all they racing GT cars in recent history were something based (or just called) 911 GTSomething.

Probably they could simply move forward the engine, and keep the car lightweight enough so to stick with a human level of power. so a mess.

What made great a lot of cars during years it's their exclusivity. if Porsche continues to produce massive quantities of 911 since so many decades, it won't never be as attractive as any other sport car out there. I like the idea that I could buy an old 911 for 20/25.000 euro, but that figure should be even lower if some more cars survived to their customers. and that's not something usual for an "exotic" (don't want to open a discussion on what an exotic actually is).

[Ferrer]

What made great a lot of cars during years it's their exclusivity. if Porsche continues to produce massive quantities of 911 since so many decades, it won't never be as attractive as any other sport car out there. I like the idea that I could buy an old 911 for 20/25.000 euro, but that figure should be even lower if some more cars survived to their customers. and that's not something usual for an "exotic" (don't want to open a discussion on what an exotic actually is).

I disagree.

Because a Carrera RS 2.7 isn't the same as a 996 3.4 Carrera.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I disagree.

Because a Carrera RS 2.7 isn't the same as a 996 3.4 Carrera.

of course, but it's still a 911. and you should compare the 2.7 RS with the GT3 RS.
Look at it in this way.
not arguing on it's place in history or every fan's mind, but one thing that made the McLaren F1 better than a lot of its contenders is the fact it didn't have an heir, it's unique a "one-off",. while even if the F40 was great, the F50 sexy and the Enzo high-tech, we know Ferrari will unveil a new "ultimate" car in a couple of years, and another one in ten years and so on.
This made the F1 almost "mythological".

The original RS was superb and even good looking for a 911 (I prefer the 964 though), but every 911 series had its RS model, sometimes more than one. it's just the race-ready version of the 911.
Probably the main fuzz around the 2.7 RS is just that it is the first. the 356 was another great car, but they built 70.000 units in all the variants, it's a lot for what I would consider really desirable.
that's what I meant.

[Ferrer]

of course, but it's still a 911. and you should compare the 2.7 RS with the GT3 RS.
Look at it in this way.
not arguing on it's place in history or every fan's mind, but one thing that made the McLaren F1 better than a lot of its contenders is the fact it didn't have an heir, it's unique a "one-off",. while even if the F40 was great, the F50 sexy and the Enzo high-tech, we know Ferrari will unveil a new "ultimate" car in a couple of years, and another one in ten years and so on.
This made the F1 almost "mythological".

The original RS was superb and even good looking for a 911 (I prefer the 964 though), but every 911 series had its RS model, sometimes more than one. it's just the race-ready version of the 911.
Probably the main fuzz around the 2.7 RS is just that it is the first. the 356 was another great car, but they built 70.000 units in all the variants, it's a lot for what I would consider really desirable.
that's what I meant.

I disagree again.

Because a 993 is inherently different from 996, despite both being 911s. If I were to buy a 911 I'd be interested in the 993 but not in the 996, so for me it's not important if they produced a lot of 911s, because for me they are all different.

In a way it'd be like saying that all S-class Mercs were the same and they aren't.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I disagree again.

Because a 993 is inherently different from 996, despite both being 911s. If I were to buy a 911 I'd be interested in the 993 but not in the 996, so for me it's not important if they produced a lot of 911s, because for me they are all different.

In a way it'd be like saying that all S-class Mercs were the same and they aren't.

it's not a simply matter of name.
of course there are differences between each series of the 911.
But even if I admit there are a lot of differences between the 993 and the 996 the same can't be said between the 964 and the 993 or the 996 and the 997.
the 911 is evolving so slowly it seems almost the same car to the average Joe. that shouldn't be a problem, but a great part of the "prestige" around a car, or a car maker is made also by those people who are not very into cars. the same customers of exotics like Porsche or Ferrari are for a big part completely ignorant on what they are going to buy and drive. they just wanted the badge.
but in their minds, and basically, even if that of a lot of enthusiasts, Porsche doesn't have such an appealing product to be owned like Ferrari or even other makers. Maserati, in my mind, is far more interesting and it was even 10 years ago when it wasn't even near at what it is now.
and that's also because its products, are good, fast and also high tech too, but nothing really involving just looking at them. the simply fact that their main product, the 911 is improving every time but without trying to look better or new, is tiring. I appreciate some aspects of the 911, but I feel like Porsche isn't risking anything with it. the Cayenne was surely more risky than any change in the 911. I know 911-fans were against the water-cooled 996 at first (and even later9 but they aren't the majority of Porsche's customers, so they aren't really listen about their complaints and just cal down with products like the RS or the Carrera GT.
While a 360 Challenge Stradale and a 996 GT3 RS mk2 were both really fast, the Ferrari is surely going to be more desirable, and not only because it was built in less units, but also because while the 360 CS is "just" the tuned and faster version of the 360 Modena, the 996 GT3RS is very different from a standard 996 Carrera 2, but it still looks like it and basically is. something like the problem the new Corvette ZR1 could have. it's fast, it's brutal and relatively cheap (not so much). but it's still a C6, just a little pimped.
we both know it isn't the look of those cars what that really matters, but it's a part of the equation. the 911 looks always the same, between each series and bewteen each version of each series. and there are usuallt too much units of each special version.
a second had previous gen Porsche is going to appeal just an enthusiasts, while other cars will still have the ability to catch everyone's attention while on the street or even parked.

For the record, I prefer Porsche's RS cars to Ferrari's Challenge Stradale and Scuderia, even just because of the real gear level.

[Ferrer]

it's not a simply matter of name.
of course there are differences between each series of the 911.
But even if I admit there are a lot of differences between the 993 and the 996 the same can't be said between the 964 and the 993 or the 996 and the 997.
the 911 is evolving so slowly it seems almost the same car to the average Joe. that shouldn't be a problem, but a great part of the "prestige" around a car, or a car maker is made also by those people who are not very into cars. the same customers of exotics like Porsche or Ferrari are for a big part completely ignorant on what they are going to buy and drive. they just wanted the badge.
but in their minds, and basically, even if that of a lot of enthusiasts, Porsche doesn't have such an appealing product to be owned like Ferrari or even other makers. Maserati, in my mind, is far more interesting and it was even 10 years ago when it wasn't even near at what it is now.
and that's also because its products, are good, fast and also high tech too, but nothing really involving just looking at them. the simply fact that their main product, the 911 is improving every time but without trying to look better or new, is tiring. I appreciate some aspects of the 911, but I feel like Porsche isn't risking anything with it. the Cayenne was surely more risky than any change in the 911. I know 911-fans were against the water-cooled 996 at first (and even later9 but they aren't the majority of Porsche's customers, so they aren't really listen about their complaints and just cal down with products like the RS or the Carrera GT.
While a 360 Challenge Stradale and a 996 GT3 RS mk2 were both really fast, the Ferrari is surely going to be more desirable, and not only because it was built in less units, but also because while the 360 CS is "just" the tuned and faster version of the 360 Modena, the 996 GT3RS is very different from a standard 996 Carrera 2, but it still looks like it and basically is. something like the problem the new Corvette ZR1 could have. it's fast, it's brutal and relatively cheap (not so much). but it's still a C6, just a little pimped.
we both know it isn't the look of those cars what that really matters, but it's a part of the equation. the 911 looks always the same, between each series and bewteen each version of each series. and there are usuallt too much units of each special version.
a second had previous gen Porsche is going to appeal just an enthusiasts, while other cars will still have the ability to catch everyone's attention while on the street or even parked.

For the record, I prefer Porsche's RS cars to Ferrari's Challenge Stradale and Scuderia, even just because of the real gear level.

I'm sorry but I can't still see the problem.

So what if they make more good cars. That's better for us, lowers the resale value. It makes for affordable great sportscars. How could that be bad at all?

I'd like at some point in my life own a 911. And it'll possibly be within my reach in the future. I don't think I could say the same about a Ferrari. I don't think that exclusivity makes the Ferrari better than the 911.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I'm sorry but I can't still see the problem.

So what if they make more good cars. That's better for us, lowers the resale value. It makes for affordable great sportscars. How could that be bad at all?

I'd like at some point in my life own a 911. And it'll possibly be within my reach in the future. I don't think I could say the same about a Ferrari. I don't think that exclusivity makes the Ferrari better than the 911.

not better but more desirable. It's something that doesn't strictly apply for us enthusiasts. I was talking from the average man point of view.

There are some Ferrari you could actually consider, like the 208/308, both GT4 or GTS/B and so on.

[Ferrer]

not better but more desirable. It's something that doesn't strictly apply for us enthusiasts. I was talking from the average man point of view.

As I've said on other occasions, their loss is our win.

There are some Ferrari you could actually consider, like the 208/308, both GT4 or GTS/B and so on.

Yes but those are Dinos.

If I were to buy a Ferrari I'd want a V12.

[LeonOfTheDead]

As I've said on other occasions, their loss is our win.

Yes but those are Dinos.

If I were to buy a Ferrari I'd want a V12.

only the first 4 or 5 years of production of the GT4 were badged as Dino, then they were sold and named as Ferrari. the GTS/GTB was only sold as a Ferrari.
even being a Dino, I wouldn't mind, those are the fathers of the present V8 mid engined cars.
actually, I think I am one of the few human being who likes the GT4...there is a red tempting example in a local dealer near my parents' house...
surely a V12 is more intriguing, but forget the low price...