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Thread: Audi RS3 (8P) Sportback 2011-2012

  1. #31
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    I got into Audi because of their ALMS/Le Mans exploits in the early part of the last decade, espeically since Ford really wasn't doing much in the ALMS (I know that the Panoz LMP1 roadsters used Ford 351 Clevor SVO engine, but with an aluminum block, EFI, etc., years ahead of the actual NASCAR lump). And Champion Racing ran Audis in the ALMS, and you couldn't confuse their cars with anything else on the track, as well as their Speed GT S4s and RS 6s.

    Then there's the fact that, at least publically, that Audi races to test future road going technology. The Quattro was the result of Audi wanting to use the WRC to test quattro for the road, FSI was run on the R8, it's standard on all Audi roadcar gasoline engines, and Audi on the R10 engineered the road-going TDI system to try and improve it through racing. That's something that only recently that many other manufactures have pursued racing aside from production based touring car racing--race on Sunday, sell on Monday is dead in NASCAR, where such concepts were essentially born and long perfected.

    Getting back on the RS 3, I do think it would look better with LED's like what the Audi S6 had. It would also work on the TTS/TT RS, and the RS 5. Ironically, BMW have aped the S6's LED running lights on the current 7 series, and the upcoming 6 series coupe and recently launched 6 series cabrio. Just don't really like the empty lower grills beneith the headlights.
    Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Don't worry the space between wheel and the door will remain in the A1, A3 and TT. That's because it is related to the mechanical layout. Front engined, rear wheel drive cars have bigger spaces because that's the space the engine sits in. The more behind the front axle the engine the bigger the gap will be, and therefore will have a longer bonnet.
    The not to get off topic, the new Audi A6 will have a similar gap between the wheel well and the front door to what the A7 has, which isn't that big. Problem is that we'll have to wait until either sometime in December, or maybe the Detroit Auto Show in January for it's launch.

    As for the A3 and the TT, that gap will probably remain the same as long as they keep the tranverse engine/gearbox layout shared with all VW Golf derived cars.
    Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chernaudi View Post
    and Audi on the R10 engineered the road-going TDI system to try and improve it through racing.
    Perhaps just for the record, audi used the R10TDI to further develop their common rail system for direct injection diesel engines, which VAG only introduced about 10 years after Bosch and Fiat had developed it and which is now standard on all modern diesel engined car.
    Audi/VAG initially used the pumpjet for roadcars, which ultimataly proved to be inferior to the common rail system (noise, emissions, sweetness) That they still call it TDI just has to do with marketing, changing the name would be tantamount to admitting that they choose the wrong system to begin with....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #34
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    Well, where did the FSI system come from that Ford, GM, and Porsche (!) have aped over the past couple of years? The TDI Pump Injector system that didn't work with diesel fuel. Audi wasn't the first to try gasoline direct electronic injection, but they were the first to bring it to the mass market. The Mitsubishi system wasn't sold outside of Japan and some European countries because it could only work on the purest of gasoline.

    Why Audi got the FSI system to work on a wider range of fuels is beyond me, but then again, the Daimler-Benz air craft engines used a mechanical pump injector system that ran off 87 octane, leaded, sulfur-filled gasoline that wouldn't probably pass as diesel in Europe and North America today. And it was derived from a mechanical diesel pump injector system.

    On the same token, why don't DFI systems for gasoline engines use common rail systems with pietzo-electric injectors?
    Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.

  5. #35
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    I'm sorry but it wasn't Audi who popularised modern electronic fuel injection. It was the Japanese, in the late 90's. First Mitsubishi, then Nissan, then Toyota and then Renault. Finally in the early 00's it was VAG's turn.

    Gasoline direct injection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chernaudi View Post
    Well, where did the FSI system come from that Ford, GM, and Porsche (!) have aped over the past couple of years? The TDI Pump Injector system that didn't work with diesel fuel.
    I wouldn't say that the diesel pump jet did not work. It was only less suitable to control emissions and noise. And finally VAG realised that and started to replace it. I think there are still several VAG models that can be bought with the old system.
    btw, here is a more primitive version of the direct injection system.

    and to add to Ferrer's list, Citroen had a HPI version of the C5 in 2001 and 2002, which they had to discontinue, as it was too problematic in daily use.
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  7. #37
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    But where those cars sold outside of select European markets and Japan? I doubt it, because only Japan and some Euro countries had gasoline that would work well with the DFI systems. Especially in America--we only switched to Euro-spec diesel fuel in 2006. I may be biased, but the only companies that I've heard of marketing DFI systems in North America are VAG (namely Audi), Porsche, Ford, GM and Mazda(which was majority owned by Ford when their DFI system was introduced, and Ford is still a major shareholder in Mazda), and maybe Volvo.

    Personally, I'm surprised that PSA aren't running DFI engines more widely (I believe that only a few cars have run the Mitsubishi system), considering that PSA still has an engine design alliance with Renault (which have made their own system) that dates back to the old PRV V6.

    And according to that article, Mitsubishi wasn't the first to attempt a electronic DFI system--Ford tried in the late '70s, but aborted it because of fuel quality issues (the source of the Mitsubishi horror stories with their GDI system), and the fact that early engine electronics were junk.

    No matter who started it--which was Ford about 30 years ago--it's been Audi and VAG that have done the most agressive marketing, and only Audi I believe is the only car maker that has their entire range of gasoline engined cars having DFI standard on all engines, which is ironic and sad, because I think that all engines can benefit from DFI, namely the Ford Coyote V8 from the Mustang, which I don't think has DFI on the Mustang.

    And Pieter, I think that PSA used the Mitsubishi GDI system under license. And as I said, I've heard horror stories with reliabilty in some European countries with lead or sulfur fouling and plugging up the injectors. As I mentioned, why didn't PSA use the the Nissan/Renault system, as PSA and Renault still collaborate on engines (the V6 that replaced the PRV, which itself was a Peugeot/Renault collaboration, with Volvo, and a line of straight fours that runs to this day). And what is that car? It looks like an old F1 car from the '60s, and looks like it has some straight four tilted on its side, or a Coventry-Climax V8.

    Back on the RS 3, does it's straight 5 engine share anything with the older inline 5s, or is it a Lambo V10 cut in half, fitted with a steel block, and fitted with a turbo?
    Last edited by Chernaudi; 11-29-2010 at 01:06 AM.
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  8. #38
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    so only if a system is sold in America, it really counts?????

    the car is the Vanwell VW14, the only midengined Vanwell produced, running the Vanwell four cylinder engine.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    so only if a system is sold in America, it really counts?????
    Nevermind, the 1954 Gullwing will do the trick.

    By the way, the engine in the RS3 is the one in the USDM Golf fitted with a turbo.
    Last edited by Ferrer; 11-29-2010 at 01:43 AM.
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  10. #40
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    The M-B 300 SL used the DB-601/605 aircraft engines' mechanical DFI system, years away from electronic controls that plauged Ford's attempts at EDFI in the late '70s. Until VAG started to import Audi products that had/have FSI, no EDFI engines were built or imported into America. Only the CAFE tax breaks for more economical engines have lead to the upsurge in DFI, which until then could only be found in some Euro models, which even then some weren't entirely effective at first as Pieter has pointed out.

    And of course, NASCAR is rumored to switch to EFI in 2011, but with a throttle body system similar to that which Ford turned to when their EDFI failed to work properly. Yea! NASCAR has broken into 1980's technology! The Ford 5.0 Coyote uses port injection--not as advanced as DFI, but light years ahead of the proposed NASCAR system!

    So is the VAG 2.5 5 designed from scratch, or was it derived from something else? Half a Lambo V10 with a steel block, an entirely new stand alone design, or a modern variant of the old VAG five cylinders?
    Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chernaudi View Post
    So is the VAG 2.5 5 designed from scratch, or was it derived from something else? Half a Lambo V10 with a steel block, an entirely new stand alone design, or a modern variant of the old VAG five cylinders?
    I dunno if anyone here knows.

    The Car Lounge/Fourtitude/VWVortex could help.

  12. #42
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    I myself believe that its a new engine that was influenced by the old straight fives. I did just post a question on 4T about the engine. However, the new five might be a new engine that's an homage to the older engines.
    Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeahone View Post
    @Duell: I know it sounds a little sarcastic but it is a strange feeling too post pics into threads where none replies
    Don't worry about that, every so often I update the NSX photos, or the S2000 photos, not everyone posts there either.

    I may not appreciate this particular Audi, but I do appreciate some of your other posts, such as the 911 Turbo ones you did a while back.

    Any contribution is appreciated.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitdy View Post
    I dunno if anyone here knows.

    The Car Lounge/Fourtitude/VWVortex could help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chernaudi View Post
    I myself believe that its a new engine that was influenced by the old straight fives. I did just post a question on 4T about the engine. However, the new five might be a new engine that's an homage to the older engines.
    It's derived from Audi's V10 engine. IIRC I read somewhere the share some parts, like the cylinder heads.
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  15. #45
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    Scan through the spec sheet, you will see all the critical numbers: 2480cc, 340 horsepower and 332 lb-ft of peak torque. Where did it get this engine ?

    Knowledgeable readers may remember Volkswagen has a 2480cc inline-5 engine being produced exclusively in Mexico for the American market Jetta. It is a low-cost design and it produces only 170 horsepower. Believe or not, it forms the basis of the TT RS engine. Of course, to realize double output it needed some serious modifications. In order to withstand the tremendous internal stress, which is obvious for an engine pumping out 137 horsepower per liter, the engine block was converted to vermicular-graphite cast iron like some advanced diesel engines. This mean it is heavier than aluminum alloy but lighter than cast iron while stiffer than both. Running inside the block are stronger and lighter pistons and con-rods. The top end was also thoroughly redesigned, with twin-continuous variable valve timing and direct fuel injection. The combination of a high performance intercooler and a large turbocharger allows up to 1.2 bar of boost pressure, yet the compression ratio is an incredible 10.0:1. No wonder this engine produces its maximum 332 lb-ft of torque from 1600 to 5300 rpm. All out, it will rev to 7000 rpm red line.
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