Best handling Classic car

[jaromull]

Oh yeah - 37bhp, leaked like a sieve, drum brakes that wore out in 5,000 miles. A real myth. Now when you get on to Coopers and S's yes, because with 100bhp at the front wheels in those days, with crossply tyres, it WAS fun. But not the actual Mini though. Ever tried the original "magic wand" gearchange? Thought not - you could spend an hour finding the right gear.

I tried Morris Mini 1275 of cca 1975 vintage. It might had problems with brakes and leaks, I never owned any. But it was fun and delight to drive it even on slippery tracks.

[Matra et Alpine]

What power differences Fleet ? Sorry to ask, but I know you'll ahve it to hand whereas I might need to do lots of googling and might get it wrong Corvette history 1970 This would suggest 300hp to 465hp range with the one in the test being the second top out of 5 ?

I didn't say it was NOT an "intermediate" model, but by my analogy showed that intermediate means nothing without taking in to account the model range.


The 911E was designed to be the more comfortable, more drivable model of 911 – fitting between the tamer 911T (Touring) and the high-performance type 911S (Super).

911T = 125 hp
911E = 153 hp
911S = 178 hp

[Matra et Alpine]

Ah how the world has moved on since my Mini days! However, I was talking to someone the other day who reckons he can get over 400 bhp out of my D type engine.....

our days me be closer than you imagine
Rallied Minis from 1970 through 79 with a short ~6 months foray with an Imp.
Then Escorts
Then ran out of money to be competitive.
THEN had kids, during that time brother ran works Audi Quattros in International and for hire. RS200, 205T16
Returned now in the classic scene with mate. After Mini, MGB GT he is now building an A40 guided by Pat Moss engineer and Frank Williams yes THE Frank Going to be a good season once we get it all sorted

Yes, lots of claims of getting lots of power and so seldom do they talk about the longevity !!
With the Mini I remember it was about 90 seconds cumulative life at max revs

[Kitdy]

Why are you still arguing about one example of Corvette vs. 911?

It is one example by one magazine - what does it even mean?!

You guys need to put this to rest - think on how pathetic this argument is.

Arguing against someone on the other side of the ocean with someone you don't like or value very much doesn't achieve much I don't think - this is to Matra and Fleet. This has been done into the ground time and time again so just let it die - henk did and thankfully he did or this would be even worse.

[Matra et Alpine]

Kitdy, butt out ... puhlease.

If you look we are actually trying to share information.
FLeet may not have known of the 911T and S and I for sure am uncertain of the Corvette range of the day.

So less of the "pathetic" and if you don't like the thread then leave ????

[clutch-monkey]

ah the horrors of the 850 gear change
You can push them out to 140 AT THE WHEELS, but it starts to be a nightmare off cam and gulps fuel ...

!!!
i can imagine

aModern option is to squeeze a Honda in there !!

there's also the twincam conversion using a BMW K1100 head i think, so that everything still fits where it should
i'm really interested in the crossflow heads (elder, weslake, KAD) as it seems to be the intermediate option.
apparently supercharger kits (from the simple toyota SC12 to the rather expensive complete s/c kit ones) are a good option, but i dunno about forcing more air into the already sorta deficient port design

Yes, lots of claims of getting lots of power and so seldom do they talk about the longevity !!
With the Mini I remember it was about 90 seconds cumulative life at max revs

one guy at Phillip Island said for his, rebuilt every three events!!!

[Fleet 500]

What power differences Fleet ? Sorry to ask, but I know you'll ahve it to hand whereas I might need to do lots of googling and might get it wrong Corvette history 1970 This would suggest 300hp to 465hp range with the one in the test being the second top out of 5 ?

I didn't say it was NOT an "intermediate" model, but by my analogy showed that intermediate means nothing without taking in to account the model range.


The 911E was designed to be the more comfortable, more drivable model of 911 – fitting between the tamer 911T (Touring) and the high-performance type 911S (Super).

911T = 125 hp
911E = 153 hp
911S = 178 hp

Well, I don't really want to try to get an exact definition of what "intermediate" means.

However, my Chilton's automotive book shows these engines available in the 1970 Corvette:

350-cu-in/300 hp
350-cu-in/350 hp
350-cu-in/370 hp (Motor Trend test car)
454-cu-in/390 hp
454-cu-in/460 hp

It appears to me, the M/T test car was in the middle (intermediate) of Corvette availability.

As for the Porsche, the M/T test car had a price as tested of over $8,000. At that price (back in 1970), it should handle better than it did.

[Matra et Alpine]

Thanks Fleet.
Was it only engine differences in the 'Vette ?
for Exampel the "intermediate" E version was created to give a bit more "luxury" to the range without the excess of power. Seems to me the 'Vette ranges were all about power and whether manual or auto ?

Thus my comment about the danger of comparing "intermediate". The inter-Porsche is a "make it easier" option, the inter-Vette is a "make more power" option.

Hmmm yea the usual price issue comes up. Well we know that comparison in $$$ is hugely skewed by the pricing/profit/import goals of the companies.

I do concur for the price it SHOULD have been better (even in Europe prices) and why as said, everyone serious replaced the "luxury" suspension with the standard to get the handling back

Wrapping this one up, the mag compared an "improved comfort" version of the 911 with an "improved power" version of the Corvette. Still makes a fun read as all your old mags do. Ta.

[henk4]

that finished?
May I then ask why you two went at length in this thread to discuss two cars that are NOT in the category of best handling classics in the first place, and therefore should not even have popped up in this thread? For instance the 912 was a much better handler than the 911, thanks to two cylinders and several kilos less behind the rear axle. It may have been slower, but the handling was distinctly better. (but it still would have left the road earlier than a 2CV)

[Matra et Alpine]

^ hmmm to explore the viewpoints and by that to learn.

Or is the forum now hosted in CHina ?

[henk4]

^ hmmm to explore the viewpoints and by that to learn.

Or is the forum now hosted in CHina ?

everything is being controlled from China these days, is that news to you?

[clutch-monkey]

i wonder if they could remake a 912 in the same class as the boxster/cayman?

[Matra et Alpine]

Do you mean pricewise get even cheaper ?
I've always seen the Boxster as the cheaper-911, just as the 912 was in its day.

[clutch-monkey]

yeah, price wise. i don't expect that they would because as you say the cayman/boxster has that niche, but as a sort of 2+2 version of those... not viable, but still.

[Ferrer]

i wonder if they could remake a 912 in the same class as the boxster/cayman?

Isn't that 356 remake that they are talking about?

And keeping on topic and staying with Porsches, wasn't the 914 apparently excellent with regards to handling? I read somewhere that it was so good that Porsche's rally drivers didn't like it very much and that they preferred the "worse" 911.