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Diesel cars in America
I am getting really annoyed... I want a Diesel Audi or Merc or Jaguar, but look at what I have to chose from here in the US
[url="http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?Body%2520Type=Sedan&_trkparms=65%253A-2%257C39%253A1&rt=nc&_nkw=diesel&_dmpt=US_Cars_Trucks&_fpos=12345&_fspt=0&_sc=1&_sop=Year_DESC&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1513&_pgn=1"]http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?Body%2520Type=Sedan&_trkparms=65%253A-2%257C39%253A1&rt=nc&_nkw=diesel&_dmpt=US_Cars_Trucks&_fpos=12345&_fspt=0&_sc=1&_sop=Year_DESC&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245.l1513&_pgn=1[/url]
This is so rediculous! I cant believe with all these stupid hybrid cars and trucks they are making that they can't supply us with a decent alternative. Most people know that Diesel cars have much better gas mileage than a hybrid. In Europe they have so many to chose from. Why Is America being such a communist?!
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I have frankly never understood why US car enthusiasts like diesels so much.
They, that are able to avoid them...
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[quote=Ferrer;966642]I have frankly never understood why US car enthusiasts like diesels so much.
They, that are able to avoid them...[/quote]
What are you talking about? They are so much better on gas. Why would you not want one for a family car? I was looking on UK ebay website and its about 50/50 for petrol and diesel. I don't understan why Americans want us to have cars with poor gas mileage... Pretty much all we have to chose from is a Mercedes E class 320/330/350 or a VW Jetta... thats pretty sad. The Jaguar diesel is an excellent car...
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When your fuel tank costs a million to fill up, you buy a tiny little diesel hatchback. Like commie euros do.
When your fuel tank costs tupence to fill up, you buy a massive V8-engined truck. Like yanks do.
Frankly I still don't understand the obsesion US [U]car enthusiasts[/U] have with diesel.
Oh and by the way, if you are a proper petrol head you can't have a Jag with a diesel. It's missing completely the point of the car.
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I think up to some price point people ceased to care about fuel economy and diesel makes less sense....I think that point is about where the E class/5 series diesel sits....
We(North American) are generally lacking in diesel options IMO in smaller cars. The mid-range car we can get them in diesels now if you buy European. Big diesels(Q7 V12, Tourag V10...etc) are probably niche even in EU that it makes even less sense here.
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[quote=Ferrer;966646]When your fuel tank costs a million to fill up, you buy a tiny little diesel hatchback. Like commie euros do.
When your fuel tank costs tupence to fill up, you buy a massive V8-engined truck. Like yanks do.
Frankly I still don't understand the obsesion US [U]car enthusiasts[/U] have with diesel.
Oh and by the way, if you are a proper petrol head you can't have a Jag with a diesel. It's missing completely the point of the car.[/quote]
This commie euro has just bought a C3 Ehdi (as a second car) which promises an average of 22-23 km liter. More details when it will arrive later this month.
The other diesel this commie euro is driving behaves exactly like the majority of US drivers appreciate, lots of low end torque and spirited acceleration (to a certain extent) when needed, but also doing 15-16 km per liter on average.
Yesterday this commie euro was driving his wife's petrol Stilo for a longer trip and the sound of the engine is really annoying and you actually have to rev it to get some proper progress. Revving is soooo 20th century....
and yes, I might end up one day with having the Jaguar diesel in a new C5.....but that is really communist thinking because it only comes with an autobox.
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It's funny you mention revving up Pieter, since my V6 sits comfortably at 1200-1400rpm even in 5th, while pretty much all diesels I've driven (that I can remember) only start to pull from 2000rpm.
As for NVH, well there's really no contest is there? Especially the cheaper you go.
By the way, the Jag diesel isn't a Jag diesel. Jag borrowed it from PSA-Ford. ;)
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[quote=Ferrer;966649]It's funny you mention revving up Pieter, since my V6 sits comfortably at 1200-1400rpm even in 5th, while pretty much all diesels I've driven (that I can remember) only start to pull from 2000rpm.
As for NVH, well there's really no contest is there? Especially the cheaper you go.
By the way, the Jag diesel isn't a Jag diesel. Jag borrowed it from PSA-Ford. ;)[/quote]
Well, the C5 pulls away easily in sixth from 1300-1400 revs....and I belief so does your car, but mine does it for half the fuel costs.....:D
and yes, I know what the Jag diesel is, but I wanted Fastdriver to wonder about that....
what NVH is, escapes me at the moment.
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Noise, Vibration and Harshness
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[quote=RacingManiac;966652]Noise, Vibration and Harshness[/quote]
Ah, yes, something that does not apply to my car at all.....hence probably my ignorance.
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[quote=henk4;966651]Well, the C5 pulls away easily in sixth from 1300-1400 revs....and I belief so does your car, but mine does it for half the fuel costs.....:D[/quote]
Probably less than half... :p
[quote=henk4;966651]and yes, I know what the Jag diesel is, but I wanted Fastdriver to wonder about that....[/quote]
I guess now that he knows it's actually a french engine it has become shit...
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[quote=Ferrer;966655]
I guess now that he knows it's actually a french engine it has become shit...[/quote]
good point.
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You all have completely lost me. I am talking bout fuel economy for a family car. Not high performance or being fun to drive. I want a car that I can comfortably take my wife and 2 kids from point A to point B and get 50 - 60 mpg and still have the luxory of a mercedies, audi or bmw. forget about the rest of that crap. If i wanted something fun to drive Id drive a sports car with a petrol engine and manual gear box...
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[quote=FastDriver;966658]You all have completely lost me. I am talking bout fuel economy for a family car. Not high performance or being fun to drive. I want a car that I can comfortably take my wife and 2 kids from point A to point B and get 50 - 60 mpg and still have the luxory of a mercedies, audi or bmw. forget about the rest of that crap. If i wanted something fun to drive Id drive a sports car with a petrol engine and manual gear box...[/quote]
What you want is C5...(see my avatar) that was what I was talking about. And in combination with the fuel economy it has a ride that your German brands can only dream of.
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With ridicolous fuel prices? Why?
Also a smooth ride goes perfectly together with a silent enigne. ;)
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[quote=Ferrer;966663]With ridicolous fuel prices? Why?
[/quote]
for the benefit of all of us, who also want to keep using mineral fuels?????
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[quote=FastDriver;966658]You all have completely lost me. I am talking bout fuel economy for a family car. Not high performance or being fun to drive. I want a car that I can comfortably take my wife and 2 kids from point A to point B and get 50 - 60 mpg and still have the luxory of a mercedies, audi or bmw. forget about the rest of that crap. If i wanted something fun to drive Id drive a sports car with a petrol engine and manual gear box...[/quote]
So what exactly is it in Europe that you want? A 1.9 TDI powered A6?
You can have BMW 3/X5, Mercedes E/ML/GL/R, pretty much all the VW in US, Audi A3/Q7 in diesel. Between those I think you have spread of Mid 20k to probably 60+K in price spread and 2 door 4 passenger to 8 passenger.....
I doubt any of them gets 50 mpg though.
What we DON'T get is higher performance variant of the diesel models, and small diesels. And small diesel won't exactly be luxurious.....
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I was listening to a VW exec say that 20% of their US customers were choosing diesel.
I'd say they have the niche market for now in your average consumer vehicle.
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LS1 pulls from 0 in 5th or 6th and sits on 100ks at about 1000rpm give or take. And my fuel costs half what yours does so we would be equal! :p
And FastDriver, you live in the US why worry about fuel costs? Enjoy the fun while you still can. In any case doesn’t the US have hundreds of capped oil wells at their disposal after we finish using al the Arabs oil!? :D
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[quote=Ferrer;966646]Frankly I still don't understand the obsesion US [U]car enthusiasts[/U] have with diesel.[/quote]
People want what they don't/can't have. New and exciting!
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[quote=crisis;966668]LS1 pulls from 0 in 5th or 6th and sits on 100ks at about 1000rpm give or take. And my fuel costs half what yours does so we would be equal! :p
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not quite, as I noted that the gasoline price down there is about 1 Euro (AUD 1.35) and I am paying about 1.30 Euro for a liter of diesel.
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$1.35 on a good day.. it was $1.56 up the road from me last week.
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We had 1,53€ a litre for 98, last week. Now it's down to about 1,47€ a litre.
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[quote=Ferrer;966642]I have frankly never understood why US car enthusiasts like diesels so much.
They, that are able to avoid them...[/quote]
Forbidden fruit... at least until recently. Americans associated commie Diesels with smelly & noisy largely because we allow hi-sulfur fuels, and there was all the clackety until the recent generation of commie Yurrupean diesels. There's also the attraction of bio-fuels now. Stories of running on grease are mighty compelling to people not familiar with Euro 1.30 per liter. Hell, we can't even get with the metric system. :D
[quote=RacingManiac;966647]I think up to some price point people ceased to care about fuel economy and diesel makes less sense....I think that point is about where the E class/5 series diesel sits....
We(North American) are generally lacking in diesel options IMO in smaller cars. The mid-range car we can get them in diesels now if you buy European. Big diesels(Q7 V12, Tourag V10...etc) are probably niche even in EU that it makes even less sense here.[/quote]
This. VW sold the old Jetta TDI (55 mpg) in small numbers compared to ROW. Some Americans are embracing the new models because we're still subsidizing fuel companies to the tune of billions per year, and diesel looks pretty attractive.
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[quote=csl177;966689]Forbidden fruit... at least until recently. Americans associated commie Diesels with smelly & noisy largely because we allow hi-sulfur fuels, and there was all the clackety until the recent generation of commie Yurrupean diesels. There's also the attraction of bio-fuels now. Stories of running on grease are mighty compelling to people not familiar with Euro 1.30 per liter. Hell, we can't even get with the metric system. :D[/quote]
Poor us commie euros with our massive fuel prices. If only we could have the prices of the land of the free...
For us forbidden fruit is anything bigger than 1100cc... :o
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[quote=Ferrer;966696]Poor us commie euros with our massive fuel prices. If only we could have the prices of the land of the free...
For us forbidden fruit is anything bigger than 1100cc... :o[/quote]
I hear ya bro', I hear ya...:o
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[quote=Dino Scuderia;966667]I was listening to a VW exec say that 20% of their US customers were choosing diesel.
I'd say they have the niche market for now in your average consumer vehicle.[/quote]
...only because they sell their cars in other markets than germany, where everybody has/ wants a diesel. And it's really no miracle that so many people want one.
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[quote=henk4;966678]not quite, as I noted that the gasoline price down there is about 1 Euro (AUD 1.35) and I am paying about 1.30 Euro for a liter of diesel.[/quote]
Yeah well its actually gone feral here at the moment. Especially Premium. I dont eve look at the moment. :eek:
Actually my mate did buy a nice diesel. Twin turbo v8 200 Series Cruiser. That thing is rediculous. :D
All crap aside I never could see the point of small cars with diesels. Like how economical do you need?! However now they are actually a better choice due to the torque and power they now produce. If you have to have a small front wheel drive car you may as well get something with a bit of grunt. Only thing I would say is in some cases the premium purchase price can take a fair while to recoup in mere fuel savings alone.
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£5 a gallon and you see why folks over here buy diesel.
tbh the likes of the Skoda Fabia VRS diesel is as competent a sports saloon as many other "sport" petrol cars out there :)
My sis embarrasses many a larger "more powerful" car when she choses to use the TORQUE and not have to change gears in accelerating on motorways :)
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[quote=Matra et Alpine;966734]£5 a gallon and you see why folks over here buy diesel.
tbh the likes of the Skoda Fabia VRS diesel is as competent a sports saloon as many other "sport" petrol cars out there :)
My sis embarrasses many a larger "more powerful" car when she choses to use the TORQUE and not have to change gears in accelerating on motorways :)[/quote]
switching to Hightower mode: Your sis uses POWER and not torque, torque is an illusion...:D
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Now Pieter, you'll be claiming HP is a better unit than kW next :)
Without torque there can be no power.
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[quote=Matra et Alpine;966734]£5 a gallon and you see why folks over here buy diesel.
tbh the likes of the Skoda Fabia VRS diesel is as competent a sports saloon as many other "sport" petrol cars out there :)
My sis embarrasses many a larger "more powerful" car when she choses to use the TORQUE and not have to change gears in accelerating on motorways :)[/quote]
I suppose given the price of juice she doesnt get many chances to try it out against these. [IMG]http://newscarinfo.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Vauxhall-VXR8-4.jpg[/IMG] :p
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Now that's just taking the pish C :)
Maybe I should have added for the same price ?? :)
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[quote=Matra et Alpine;966742]Now that's just taking the pish C :)
Maybe I should have added for the same price ?? :)[/quote]
I have just asked Peugeot if they could convert one of their redundant V12 prototypes for street use. I am still waiting for an answer....
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Or if you have a petrol (or diesel) car you could just... you know... use the lever between the seats.
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Remember it takes time to change gear .. time that means you lose acceleration :)
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Then I'll make the diesel lose enough revs so that it experiences turbo lag and destroy it. ;)
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ah but Ferrer, can you not hear Pieter tell you again .... you dont need to change down a gear to find the torque in a diesel :)
and I was meaning going up the way too !!
But if it's about "making" it fail then a petrol car in 6th gear at 40mph for the lolz
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Get a sequential 'box then.. or just faster reactions. :p
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NO matter how fast your reactions are you lose time.
The best improvement you make in the OMS single seater ( in ours ) and caterham et all bike engine race cars is a throttle interruptor and program it to match the power band and gear ratios.
THink of it as the driveline. ANY time there is not a direct linkage between the engine and the wheels then you are failing to transfer the torque and thus no acceleration - ie coasting - during the gear change. A sequential box is only a different selection mechanism and still has the issue. Unless you go doubel clutch and gear internals you will always lose. Now coming away from the crazies of racing for a mo' .... few street cars have sequential and doubel clutches. SO keepign it practical comparison, you lose in ordinary cars when you're seeking torque by changing gears to match an engine which jsut delivers torque.
Can't get away from practicalities, even if it IS in a horrible nasty smelling oil burner :)