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[QUOTE=Chernaudi;869521]And why was the Audi R8 so dominant? It was designed to take on the likes of Toyota, BMW, and Mercedes Benz at Le Mans. So what happened? Toyota bolted for F1, M-B, after LM '99 ditched plans to run the CLRs in the ALMS after the blow over accidents(which has lead us to the horrible LMP areo rules), BMW did a lame duck year in the ALMS(most of BMW motorsport's budget was spent on Williams, and now Saulber(spelling)). That left for 2000 at Le Mans only a private 1998-spec BMW LMP, Pescarolo with half-hearted support from Peugeot, and Panoz in the ALMS and at Le Mans with equally half-hearted support from Ford.
And even when the R8 was run by privateers, there were at least an Audi engine and chassis/areo guy helping out with set-up info. Granted, Joest had a ton of Audi personell with the R8 and R10, and Champion only had 4 in 2008(probably a similar or lesser number during the R8 days), when you have the support of a factory slung behind you, and the rest have only half hearted, half baked support, or none at all, what does one expect to happen in a series such as the ALMS, which is about as close to formula libre as you're gonna get today?[/QUOTE]
When you have a car that's 6 sec a lap faster in 2005 and still can't beat a R8, you know you should not be complaining when Audi brings back the factory team from 2006 onward.....factory support or not, the winning teams have always been the better quality teams....be it as the Champion/Goh with private old R8 against the faster Pescarolo, or the Factory Joest Audi against the Peugeot that likes to shoot itself in the foot.....
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The holes in the nose kind of remind me of the louvres Ferrari used at Spain (and possibly Bahrain, I can't remember) last year. Also, did the LMS finally give up on forcing the EVO regulations into effect?
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[QUOTE=Wes.Coleman;869871]Also, did the LMS finally give up on forcing the EVO regulations into effect?[/QUOTE]
LMS = Le Mans Series. You probably mean ACO. :)
EVO regs have never existed. There were only plans. Sometime during last year last bits of those plans were basically dropped likely due opposition from manufacturers. Big regulation change is coming in 2011, but that affects only engine side of things and includes "no fundamental changes to chassis regulations". More about 2011 regs in these PDFs [URL="http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans/ressources/pdf/silverstone08_regl09_gb.pdf"]here[/URL] and [URL="http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/reglements/ressources/2009/auto/reglement_2011_moteur_hybride_gb.pdf"]here[/URL].
Warning: reading those engine regulation plans (for 2011) might be quite saddening... since it is forcing LMP1 cars to LMP2 sized engines, aka max 8 cylinders. :(
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So when I read that these LMP cars will have a paddle operated sequential, does that mean there will be a third pedal for the clutch with the gear +/-paddles on the steering wheel? I've never fully understood this.
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[QUOTE=LTSmash;870983]So when I read that these LMP cars will have a paddle operated sequential, does that mean there will be a third pedal for the clutch with the gear +/-paddles on the steering wheel? I've never fully understood this.[/QUOTE]
this is supposed to be a true sequential gearbox, so yes, the clutch would be there, but required of being operated only during starts on the likes.
common gearboxes available on road cars aren't sequentials, just manual operated by electro-hydraulic mechanisms.
the only road car that comes to mind with a true sequential is the Gumpert Apollo, or the old CLK GTR.
probably there are others I can't remember at the moment.
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[QUOTE=LeonOfTheDead;870995]this is supposed to be a true sequential gearbox, so yes, the clutch would be there, but required of being operated only during starts on the likes.[/QUOTE]
So it's basically the same as current F1 gearboxes?
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[QUOTE=LTSmash;871010]So it's basically the same as current F1 gearboxes?[/QUOTE]
well, I got lost with all the rules' changes, but afaik, they use a truly sequential still electronically/hydraulically actuated gearbox, with what I remember being called a [I]seamless[/I] system, resulting in fastest gear changes, but I don't know much more at the moment
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[QUOTE=LeonOfTheDead;870995]
common gearboxes available on road cars aren't sequentials, just manual operated by electro-hydraulic mechanisms.
[/QUOTE]
The only difference I think is that the shift forks are operated via a shift drum instead of other linkages, such that you can only go between gears in steps as opposed to skipping gears(say a 5-3 downshift, instead of 5-4-3). In road car I suppose it makes sense since most of the time the paddle shifter is an optional component over standard manual which means they would share the physical gearbox but have add-on for the paddle shifter....
What exactly is the difference between the new rules and now? LMP car has been using paddle shifter for ages? And AFAIK the difference between their boxes and F1 cars other than design for different load and life cycle is that F1 boxes now have the whole seamless shift, which is again an add-on feature over the standard box in regards to how the timing between gear is managed, and F1 tend to use electro-hydrolic actuator for the shiftng for maximum speed and LMP cars tend to use electro-pneumatic system for better reliability at some sacrifice to speed....
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[QUOTE=LTSmash;871010]So it's basically the same as current F1 gearboxes?[/QUOTE]
RacingManiac explained it already, but absolutely yes from the driver's point of view. They never need to use clutch, except at getting out of the pits. Clutch is a button or a paddle in the steering wheel (for example most F1 steering wheels have two clutch paddles, at both sides). Thus no need for clutch pedal and that allows left-foot braking. (Interestingly Dario Franchitti said recently he right-foot brakes!)
Sequential gearboxes have basically improved racing - remember how common gearbox failures were previously... but then again it has taken something away from the endurance aspect, I mean for the driver nursing the gearbox needs no special skill anymore since computer makes sure every shift is perfect. Honestly I'm more pissed off about presence of traction control, despite that good old H-gearboxes are always so manly in old onboard videos etc.
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[QUOTE=RacingManiac;871215]The only difference I think is that the shift forks are operated via a shift drum instead of other linkages, such that you can only go between gears in steps as opposed to skipping gears(say a 5-3 downshift, instead of 5-4-3). In road car I suppose it makes sense since most of the time the paddle shifter is an optional component over standard manual which means they would share the physical gearbox but have add-on for the paddle shifter....[/QUOTE]
there isn't a single technical difference between the manual or the F1 transmission in Ferrari road cars, it's just and add-on as you thought.
and, for the record, a transmission cost to Ferrari about 500 €.
[QUOTE=So Slow;871514]Sequential gearboxes have basically improved racing - remember how common gearbox failures were previously... but then again it has taken something away from the endurance aspect, I mean for the driver nursing the gearbox needs no special skill anymore since computer makes sure every shift is perfect. Honestly I'm more pissed off about presence of traction control, despite that good old H-gearboxes are always so manly in old onboard videos etc.[/QUOTE]
true, but at the same time, now they don't have wounds on their hands at the end of the Monaco GP
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It seems that offically that the R15 will have a 5.5 V10 per the ACO's LM24 entry list.
And BMW's and Aston Martin's SMG road car gearboxes are H-patern manual converts-the BMW's started out as a Getrag 6 Speed H-gate, and the Aston Martin Vanquish had a Borg-Warner T56 converted to a SMG shift.
And NASCAR gearboxes only require the clutch to get the car to move from a dead stop, but are H-gates. The dog clutches and straight cut gears(standard in all manual and SMG gearboxes) that Jerico and T101 4 speeds use have a lot to answer for there.
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[QUOTE=Chernaudi;872028]And BMW's and Aston Martin's SMG road car gearboxes are H-patern manual converts-the BMW's started out as a Getrag 6 Speed H-gate, and the Aston Martin Vanquish had a Borg-Warner T56 converted to a SMG shift.[/QUOTE]
all fake sequentials gearboxes on road cars are so, except for the Gumpert, and maybe even for the Tramontana (just because I don't have data on it), otherwise they all are manual gearboxes in first place.
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[QUOTE=LeonOfTheDead;872040]all fake sequentials gearboxes on road cars are so, except for the Gumpert, and maybe even for the Tramontana (just because I don't have data on it), otherwise they all are manual gearboxes in first place.[/QUOTE]
The Ascari too I thought..
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[QUOTE=Rockefella;872133]The Ascari too I thought..[/QUOTE]
some sites say the A10 use a [I]sequential manual[/I] as standard, and considering they offer a manual as an option, I would say it could be another fake sequential.
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The one that topgear(yellow with black stipe) tested I think uses the same gearbox as their FIA racer.....which is actually a racing gearbox...
Small manufacturers like that is a lot easier to buy gearboxes in much smaller quantity, without worry about tooling cost....