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[QUOTE=Kitdy;885374]etc...
The thing is, as gas prices rise again after the economic disaster, we wills tart getting those small European cars and they will cost a fraction of what they retail for in Europe. With FIAT coming here, we may well get the 500, and the Fiesta i s already on it's way over so North America is going to become more and more the best of both worlds as time goes forward and global architectures become more prevalent for automakers.[/QUOTE]
There are still cars that it will not be profitable to market in America, and they will not get sold there, regardless of globalization of the automotive infrastructure. We will also inevitably miss out on some of the engine offerings that don't comply with emissions standards over here (a problem that my fair state and CARB are happily compounding). The innate difference of the markets means that we will never have the same cars here and there and therefore it will always be apples and oranges.
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[QUOTE=Rockefella;885377]It's too much of a hassle to drive 50+ miles just to find those roads.[/QUOTE]
That's a good reason for a petrolhead to prefer Europe.
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[QUOTE=Ferrer;885376]I prefer Europe, not for the expensive cars, you do have point in that, but for the bread and butter cars.
A Twingo RS isn't less than a Mustang what it is, is different. Rocke makes an excellent point. I'm not dismissing American cars, as I said I like the Mustang and I wish they sold them here. But what if you need a family car? Would you choose an Insignia OPC or an Impala SS?
Yes you get cheaper expensive cars, but that's just a small part of the motoring world, there's much more to be considered.[/QUOTE]
So if I want a bread and butter car (I don't conisder the OPC a bread and butter car), I'd go for something basic, like a Corolla, Accord, Civic, or Camry for family. And if I wanted something nice, I'd go for a 3 series or a Malibu - the Malibu is supposedly great. You're forgetting our bread and butter cars may be boring (Toyota and Honda) but they are excellent for what they are, and if you want some fun, plonk down some more coin and grab an Infiniti or BMW.
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;885370]In Canada, the average hourly wage is 18 and change an hour, do you know what that would be in Euros for Catalunya for example?[/QUOTE]
blue collar, about 1.000/1.200 € a month.
I'm not Ferrer, but I would prefer to spend the money on a 500 SS than on a Mustang. It's definitely too big, heavy (not being loaded with gizmos and luxury equipment to justify it) and [I]american[/I], that's to say that it still seems design just for 1/4 mile races despite I know it can handle and pretty well too.
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[QUOTE=Ferrer;885381]That's a good reason for a petrolhead to prefer Europe.[/QUOTE]
True, but if you consider North America by region it levels the playing field. I'm sure CMC can vouch for So-Cals pacific roadways. The mountanious areas in the northeast and around Colorado or Utah make for some great driving too. I see your point though.. we are kind of limited in the 'driving roads' category.
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;885382]So if I want a bread and butter car (I don't conisder the OPC a bread and butter car), I'd go for something basic, like a Corolla, Accord, Civic, or Camry for family. And if I wanted something nice, I'd go for a 3 series or a Malibu - the Malibu is supposedly great. You're forgetting our bread and butter cars may be boring (Toyota and Honda) but they are excellent for what they are, and if you want some fun, plonk down some more coin and grab an Infiniti or BMW.[/QUOTE]
And we don't need to go for a BMW because we've got Focuses, Leons, 147s...
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;885382]So if I want a bread and butter car (I don't conisder the OPC a bread and butter car), I'd go for something basic, like a Corolla, Accord, Civic, or Camry for family. And if I wanted something nice, I'd go for a 3 series or a Malibu - the Malibu is supposedly great. You're forgetting our bread and butter cars may be boring (Toyota and Honda) but they are excellent for what they are, and if you want some fun, plonk down some more coin and grab an Infiniti or BMW.[/QUOTE]
You seem to be forgetting a whole class of cars below those. The Camry, especially in its current bloated form, or Accord should not be considred entry cars. I know you don't like hatches, but you can't just disregard them. They fill the slot below these cars and in Europe can be much more fun than the cars you mentioned. They would also be cheaper than those cars in a [B][I][U]comparable[/U][/I][/B] market. As someone who likes driving why would you buy a more expensive less fun car barring practicality, which I bet would be surprisingly similar to some 5 doors.
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See how we get better cars...
[url=http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/20/euro-only-mitsubishi-evolution-fq-330-sst/]Euro-only: Mitsubishi Evolution FQ-330 SST[/url]
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iirc the Pagani Zonda was never officially available in North America. Or even the 959. Oh wait, and older Ferraris and Lamborghinis were less powerful.
kthxbai.:D
Just kidding, but it shows you how different the two situations are.
Here a 2,5 tons truck with a 6 liter V8 is the worst kind of polluting vehicle conceivable.
There, a V12 Countach was dangerous even for pedestrians, not only for the air (see horrible bumpers and uber-restrictive catalysts).
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[QUOTE=Rockefella;885385]True, but if you consider North America by region it levels the playing field. I'm sure CMC can vouch for So-Cals pacific roadways. The mountanious areas in the northeast and around Colorado or Utah make for some great driving too. I see your point though.. we are kind of limited in the 'driving roads' category.[/QUOTE]
i have driven all over this fine country of ours in a variety of fine automobiles. and i have driven a third of spain's coastline in a fiat punto, and not the grande one.
hands down, the roads in spain we more fun. with comparable scenery. unfortunately it was let down by the car. i had the mini at home, and was wishing for it then.
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[QUOTE=LeonOfTheDead;885384]blue collar, about 1.000/1.200 € a month.[/QUOTE]
At 18/hr, the average Canadian would make $2880 a month, for 4 weeks, 40 hours a week, which is 1830 Euros. Then again, that's blue collar versus average, we need both to be average. Minimum wage in Ontario is $8.75, so that'd work out to $1400 or 891 Euros a month.
What's minimum wage in Italy say?
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;885405]At 18/hr, the average Canadian would make $2880 a month, for 4 weeks, 40 hours a week, which is 1830 Euros. Then again, that's blue collar versus average, we need both to be average. Minimum wage in Ontario is $8.75, so that'd work out to $1400 or 891 Euros a month.
What's minimum wage in Italy say?[/QUOTE]
Did you include taxes?
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;885405]At 18/hr, the average Canadian would make $2880 a month, for 4 weeks, 40 hours a week, which is 1830 Euros. Then again, that's blue collar versus average, we need both to be average. Minimum wage in Ontario is $8.75, so that'd work out to $1400 or 891 Euros a month.
What's minimum wage in Italy say?[/QUOTE]
Here minimum wage is 600€ a month or so.
So a Twingo RS would cost me about 25,5 months. Or if I want to save money, I could have a Panda 100HP in about 18 months.
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i have solution:
move to Australia, compromise of both
plethora of euro and jap imports, although lacking in dedicated LHD models, hence muscle cars are harder to get (but available if you don't want the local variety)
roads are a mix of both, for better or for worse
fuel price is in the middle, insurance pretty cheap
can race all year
downside is car tax on a par with europe, and only older cars can be driven in LHD (may be an issue for some), and in some area's modifications are difficult to do legally (although this is mainly of concern to minitruckers...)
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[QUOTE=Rockefella;885406]Did you include taxes?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ferrer;885407]Here minimum wage is 600€ a month or so.
So a Twingo RS would cost me about 25,5 months. Or if I want to save money, I could have a Panda 100HP in about 18 months.[/QUOTE]
A base Mustang starts at 24k, so that'd be 17 months.
A 2.0T Genesis coupe would cost 25k, so that'd be 18 months. Would you rather a Panda, or a Genesis? For 25.5 months here you'd have 37,500 to buy a car.
NA wins. I kid... sorta.