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Want!!!
Just one pic?
looks like it, unfortunately. Thanks for the new background, McLareN!
Nice. How many of these were made?
5 were built.
3 orange, 2 black.
3, including the two black ones, were sold to members of the same family.
I believe that McLaren have the prototype.
This is a bit light on images for you isn't it McLareN?
Good pic BTW.
I have a poster of this monster in my room......crazy sweet car.
Isnt the prototype the XP4 of so the car resides in cali and you can see it a Crystal Cove.
The LM prototype, rather surprisingly, is XP1LM.
As seen in the above photograph.
.....
I also have never seen a black F1 LM, but I think I recall reading that in a book I have - Driving Ambition. It is THE book to have if you're in to the McLaren F1, as it was cowritten by Gordon Murray, and is entirely about the McLaren F1.
EDIT: found a couple of pics, they barely meet the hi-res requirements... :o
Actually according to this article, LM # 1 and 4 were black. I have still never seen a pic of a black one.
XP LM Prototype, Historic Orange, McLaren promotional car
LM1 Black
LM2 Historic Orange
LM3 Historic Orange
LM4 Black
LM5 Historic Orange
[url]http://www.qv500.com/mclarenf1p3.php[/url]
found another one from the "exotic cars + snow" thread...
[QUOTE=nopassn]found another one from the "exotic cars + snow" thread...[/QUOTE]
Where is that thread?
[QUOTE=furious_fiero]Where is that thread?[/QUOTE]
[url]www.checkoutthesearchfeature.com[/url]
[url]http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11173&highlight=snow[/url]
come on people, need info on these black F1 LM's!
[QUOTE=furious_fiero]come on people, need info on these black F1 LM's![/QUOTE]
Actually, no one has really see the 2 black LMs. So no pics. Yes no pics, thats bad. I think both cars was delivered to Sultan of Brunei and was always been kept on his garage. Theres not much info about.
If you want to know more about McLaren Lm or the F1. Go in this forum. [url]www.automotiveforums.com[/url]
There's a guy named peloton and he's a mclaren freak. He can almost answer all of you questions.
Quote from Mclarens official website....
"As a tribute to the memory of Bruce McLaren, all the F1 LM's were painted in the same Papaya Orange that was used on his contemporary Formula One and Can Am cars."
Well that clears that up.
Guys, I have this pic of a blue LM. Can anyone explain this???
If this is not an original LM then my apologies someone can remove the picture.
EDIT: One more red LM picture!!!!!!
[QUOTE=islero]Guys, I have this pic of a blue LM. Can anyone explain this???
If this is not an original LM then my apologies someone can remove the picture.
EDIT: One more red LM picture!!!!!![/QUOTE]
They are not true original LMs. They are regular road car Mclarens fitted with the LM package with you could get custom through Mclaren.
Mclaren is the crapest car ever...if you were blind,deaf and stupid! My god the LM is hardcore!!!!
[QUOTE=furious_fiero]Quote from Mclarens official website....
"As a tribute to the memory of Bruce McLaren, all the F1 LM's were painted in the same Papaya Orange that was used on his contemporary Formula One and Can Am cars."
Well that clears that up.[/QUOTE]
Two of them were black - you actually quoted the chassis numbers yourself already.
Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist.
McLaren are a company that deal with very wealthy people, and if they ask for a car to be painted in whatever colour, then they'll do it.
If McLaren's press release stating that all of the cars "are" orange was written before the customer orders were taken, how could they forsee that someone would want a different colour?
What would I possibly gain from making something like that up anyway?
[QUOTE=eclipse360]Actually, no one has really see the 2 black LMs. So no pics. Yes no pics, thats bad. I think both cars was delivered to Sultan of Brunei and was always been kept on his garage. Theres not much info about.
If you want to know more about McLaren Lm or the F1. Go in this forum. [url]www.automotiveforums.com[/url]
There's a guy named peloton and he's a mclaren freak. He can almost answer all of you questions.[/QUOTE]
Peloton25 posts here too, you know. ;)
Thanks for the compliment - assuming you meant "freak" in a nice way. :D
Ok - 5 LMs were built for customers, but 6 were built in total if you count the prototype, which I do. The 5 customer cars were built to celebrate the 5 McLaren F1 GTRs that completed the 1995 24Hrs of LeMans race, finishing 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 13th places overall. It was a very impressive result for a first-time entry at LeMans.
On to the subject that popped up in the course of the thread:
I am fully convinced that the story of the Black LMs is true. Unfortunately there are no photos to prove that they exist, and there is also conflicting info from McLaren and other sources that they were all painted that distinctive Papaya Orange, both of which make it quite difficult to convince people that the story is true.
I have been in contact with 3 people who all claim that the two black LMs do indeed exist. These were all very credible sources - people who worked for McLaren Cars during the time that the customer LMs were built. Each one independently described the two cars with nearly identical details, lending immense credibility to the story of the Black LMs.
Additionally, the Chassis History poster that is included with Driving Ambition - which the QV500.com list was compiled from - clearly lists LM1 and LM4 as having been painted "Black + Graphics". See for yourself below if you do not have a copy already - XPLM is listed as the last F1 built in 1995, and then you can see the 5 customer LMs (LM1-LM5) were built in the middle of 1996. The chassis numbers in green are all the 1996 F1 GTRs, the numbers in white are standard road cars. The numbers on the row above (mostly blank) identify the order in which the F1 road cars were completed.
Additionally, a fourth rather high ranking McLaren Cars employee has told a story about how McLaren had intended to build all of the LMs in Orange, but that "a very high profile client had rejected that color on two of the three that they ordered". That high profile client was the Brunei Royal Family. As many here will know it is not uncommon for them to spec things that are a bit out of the ordinary from many car manufacturers. Besides LM1 and LM4, Brunei also ended up with LM5, which as you can see was painted the traditional Papaya color. They also have a number of standard F1s - at least 4, and they have a replica of GTR #01R, the LeMans winning F1 GTR, built upon the GTR #09R chassis.
Another thing that lends credibility to all of this is that the two customer LMs that have been spotted and photographed turned out to be LM3 (the car in the snow there) and LM2, which is kept in a small auto museum in Japan. Both of those cars are Papaya as the poster describes.
Sadly, photos of the Black LMs will probably never surface. Brunei is a strange place and only limited photos have ever been snuck out of the Sultan's many garages. Our only hope is that they might decide to sell one or more of these cars at some point, but I don't leave much hope for that. Only one of the reported 9 F1s that went to Brunei has managed to break free - chassis #014 painted Titanium Yellow - and it is now owned in the USA by Gary Schaevitz of New York.
= = = = = =
The "Blue LM" is indeed an F1 road car - chassis #011 built in 1994 and originally finished in Carbon (almost Black). Sometime in 1998, the car received a complete refit from the McLaren Cars factory for a new owner, converting the car to the High Downforce Kit that was described above. Except for the interior in this car, which is mostly a mixture of Brown leather and suede, this is probably one of my most favorite F1s.
This car was sold through a Christies Auction in London in 2003 for a total price of 637,720 GBP, including the Buyer's Premium. The car ended up somewhere in Europe and has not been seen since unfortunately.
= = =
The "Red LM" is actually painted Kandy Orange Metallic, and is yet another F1 road car that has been converted to look like an LM with the High Downforce Kit. It is chassis #073, one of the last F1s built in 1998. The car was originally finished in AMG Green Velvet, but later it too received a complete refit that actually included the installation of an LM-spec engine. This was done for a very special client of McLaren - actually one of the four men who helped to get the F1 project off the ground in 1988. His name is Mansour Ojjeh and he is the President of Techniques d'Avant Garde - makers of Tag Heuer watches along with many other businesses and early sponsors of the McLaren Formula 1 team. Later the two would merge and become partners, forming the Tag/McLaren Group.
Chassis #073 was also sold through a Christies Auction at the end of 2003 fetching a final price of £731,250 including Buyer's Premium. This car ended up coming to the USA and resides in the collection of a man named Don Wallace, of Tampa, FL. He owns the Lazy Daze RV company - an empire he built up from nothing starting in the 1970s I believe. He has an extremely impressive collection of exotics that includes an Enzo, Carrera GT, Koenigsegg CC8s, McLaren SLR and likely many more.
Incidentally - there are only two F1 road cars that have received the LM-spec engine upgrade - the other is a silver F1 with a unique set of headlights that also wears the High Downforce Kit. It is suspected that this car is chassis #059, but that isn't yet confirmed. Also, the name of the owner is unknown, but the car wears UK Registration plate "R66 MCL". I suspect they also have close ties to McLaren. BMW Motorsport will not be building any more LM-spec engines, so no other customers will be able to purchase this upgrade.
If you have more questions about F1s, I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. I will also try to add more hi-res LM photos to this thread soon. :cool:
>8^)
ER
his knowledge never ceases to amaze me :)
[QUOTE=ExoticCarSite]his knowledge never ceases to amaze me :)[/QUOTE]
Agreed!
Just two small questions Peloton, how many people from McLaren cars are you in contact with? Also, wouldn't the actual company have at least 1 or more pictures of the black LMs, I doubt that they'd sell the cars in such a unique colour and not at least have some pictorial record of it.
Over the years that I've been pursuing F1 info, I have exchanged emails and spoken with approximately 8-10 current/former McLaren Cars employees. I'm not in constant contact with any of them, but could rattle some cages if I thought that I needed to. My most valuable source for info on the F1s I met through an Ebay auction actually. :cool:
The factory keeps excellent documentation and photos on each and every car. I am certain they have photos of the Black LMs - however I am also certain that if photos ever appear of those two cars, it will not be because McLaren has released them. They simply won't do that under any circumstances. The only one who might have a chance at getting access to their records would be a new or current owner of the car in question. It's really a shame... :(
I wish that Driving Ambition had included 2 or 3 photos of each car for reference purposes, but obviously they thought better of doing that. In fact, there are actually very few customer cars pictured inside the book. Most of the photos in the book are of the prototypes.
>8^)
ER
i forgot you come here too! you're the best!
peloton, Do you have any document that has all the chassis numbers of all the cars? Can you please post that? After seeing the F1 GT and this LM thread, I really want to learn more about each and ever F1 built.
You are a Mclaren fount of knowledge, peloton. Thanks a lot for the info!!!!!
PS: one last thing. I want to know more about Bernd Pieschtrieder and Rowan atkinson's cars, can you tell me?( chassis number, their fate now, history etc)
[QUOTE=man 430gt]Mclaren is the crapest car ever...if you were blind,deaf and stupid! My god the LM is hardcore!!!![/QUOTE]
if dont love being mauled by a 241 mph 630 hp monster, THEN you can claim you dont like it.
<<100th Post<<w00t<<
[QUOTE=islero]peloton, Do you have any document that has all the chassis numbers of all the cars? Can you please post that? After seeing the F1 GT and this LM thread, I really want to learn more about each and ever F1 built.[/quote]
There is a poster included with Driving Ambition that outlines the complete chassis history of the F1s. If you are interested in learning a lot about the cars, I would highly recommend picking up that book. It's a spectacular read.
Here's a shot of the backside of the poster.
[img]http://a3.cpimg.com/image/FB/D6/16926203-faa3-028001B2-.jpg[/img]
Across the top, you can see it has the F1 Chassis History. It's broken down by chassis number and shows the type of F1 and the order they were built, along with their original exterior color. The bottom half includes F1 GTR Race History for 1995 - 1997. Some GTRs continued to race after that. The opposite side of the poster has this image of the last F1 - chassis #075 - in front of a RAF Hawk jet.
[img]http://a1.cpimg.com/image/21/53/8994081-fe4b-012900EF-.jpg[/img]
If you can't spring for the book, there are two websites that have duplicated the info from the poster in an online format. The first one was linked on the previous page, and it is a very good resource with info and stats on the various types of McLarens.
[url]http://www.qv500.com/indexmclaren.php[/url]
Most of their info is accurate, save for a few of the captions on their photos. Also the price guide is suspect, but information like that fluctuates regularly and since most F1 sales are private, it's hard to put figures like that together with any amount of accuracy.
The second resource for chassis numbers is this site here:
[url]http://wspr-racing.com/chassis/mclaren.htm[/url]
The only error I noticed on their list is the identification of a suspected 29th GTR. There were only 28 GTRs built over the three year period. The car they suspected was GTR #29R actually turned out to be GTR #25R, having been rebuilt from spares after a fire severly damaged the chassis at LeMans in 1997. It continues to race in the Japan GT Championship series even today.
[quote]You are a Mclaren fount of knowledge, peloton. Thanks a lot for the info!!!!![/quote]
Thanks - I am always glad to be able to help people learn about this amazing supercar. It's nice to hear my efforts are appreciated. :cool:
[quote]PS: one last thing. I want to know more about Bernd Pieschtrieder and Rowan atkinson's cars, can you tell me?( chassis number, their fate now, history etc)[/QUOTE]
I don't know the chassis number of Pieschetsrieder's F1, however I do know that he had a heavy crash in an F1 on the Autobahn, and reportedly the car was written off. Whether that was his own car, or a car belonging to BMW, I can not say with any certainty. The words "written off" seem to imply that it was destroyed beyond repair. Bummer that... :eek: :(
Atkinson's F1 is chassis #061. He also had a small crash in that car, but it was fully repaired and he still owns and drives it. The car was used in an episode of TopGear last year where they reviewed the Ferrari Enzo and made comparisons against the previous decade's supercars like the F1, XJ220, and F40. This is a shot of Atkinson's F1.
[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/images/downloads/special_april.jpg] [img]http://a9.cpimg.com/image/21/E8/48202529-07fc-028001E0-.jpg[/img] [/url]
[i]Clickable for hi-res...[/i] :D
I'll be back with hi-res LM photos over the weekend.
>8^)
ER
Ahhhh.... I love your info peleton.. Such a beuty that you post in our forum.. (your forum also :D of course) I actually love the F1 more and more after I read all the things you can tell me about it;) (I`m a history guy) I can`t wait untill the Hig-res pics of the LM ;)
Peleton, that orange F1 LM in Japan wouldn't happen to sit next to a red F1 GT, would it? ;)
Yes, in fact it does. The museum you probably have photos from is called the ZAZ Museum and it is located in Nagoya, Japan. The owner of the museum also has a white F1 now - chassis #053 - recently sold one of the short tail LARK GTRs - chassis #13R - to Australia, and long ago owned a blue F1 road car - chassis #018.
All four cars were reviewed in a Japanese magazine called Rosso quite recently. There is a copy of that magazine for sale on [url=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6980048541]Ebay[/url] now. Here's a shot of the four F1s together from the Rosso website.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1/dp037.jpg] [img]http://a9.cpimg.com/image/E3/7A/51571939-924b-028001E0-.jpg[/img] [/url]
[i]Clickable...[/i]
I also sectioned off that image and made a version with just the LM and GT. It's a bit soft at full res, but still a great image I think.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1/mclaren_LM_and_GT.jpg] [img]http://a6.cpimg.com/image/42/B7/51573826-9262-028001E0-.jpg[/img] [/url]
[i]Clickable...[/i]
>8^)
ER
[QUOTE=Peloton25]Yes, in fact it does. The museum you probably have photos from is called the ZAZ Museum and it is located in Nagoya, Japan. The owner of the museum also has a white F1 now - chassis #053 - recently sold one of the short tail LARK GTRs - chassis #13R - to Australia, and long ago owned a blue F1 road car - chassis #018.
[/QUOTE]
do you happen to know how many F1's are in australia? all i have is a pic of a silver one in a showroom (maranello motorsports) next to two red F40s and one yellow F50.
i agree with LotusLocost, learning all this stuff about the mac makes it even more desirable as a dream car.
There wasn't a white one when I went there! :(
[QUOTE=clutch-monkey]do you happen to know how many F1's are in australia? all i have is a pic of a silver one in a showroom (maranello motorsports) next to two red F40s and one yellow F50.
i agree with LotusLocost, learning all this stuff about the mac makes it even more desirable as a dream car.[/QUOTE]
I sent this info to another member in response to a PM the other day. To save some time I will simply plagiarise myself a bit.
The only F1 that I'm aware of having ever been in Australia up to this year is chassis #009, originally owned by Dean Wills, who was the Chairman of Coca-Cola Amatil in Australia. At one point, his car was crashed by a mechanic in Sydney, but although the crash was massive and the car sustained quite a bit of damage, McLaren Cars in England was able to rebuild it for him.
Very early this year, Wills sold his F1 to Tony Raftis who owns Maranello Motorsport in Melbourne. This is the car in the photo you have. Tony and I exchanged several emails while he had the car and he claimed it to be the only McLaren F1 on the continent of Australia. I'm sure he would have known through either Wills or McLaren themselves if that was not the case. He explained that something about your RHD-only laws made it difficult for F1s to be importedfor road use. Apparently Mr Wills had used some contacts in the government to help him bring his car in and get it certified. Other potential customers would not have had this same opportunity, thus no other F1s made it to Australia.
Tony kept #009 until about 1 month ago before selling it to a man named Barry Fitzgerald. Get this... Mr Fitz apparently owns and operates the chains of McDonalds restaurants in Victoria, AUS. He must have sold a lot of cheeseburgers and french fries to afford an F1. ;) Of course he may have other business interests as well, but that is all I have been able to confirm so far.
Back to Mr Raftis though. After acquiring #009 he became very interested in purchasing other McLaren F1s and would frequently ask me about other chassis he had located around the world.
One of the cars he has purchased is GTR #13R, a former LARK-liveried GTR that raced in the Japan GT Series in 1996. That car has remained in a private collection in Japan (see above photo) since it finished the season of racing, achieving the championship victory with drivers Ralf Schumacher and Naokki Hattori. That car is in Melbourne as of about two weeks ago and is probably in the workshop of Maranello Motorsport as I type this.
Tony also purchased GTR #16R out of England. It had been owned by Ray Bellm, who was one of the GULF-liveried F1 GTR drivers, and one of the men who originally convinced McLaren to build the GTRs in the first place. Mr Bellm had McLaren Cars convert that GTR for road use several years back and the car was plated and driven in the UK. It was originally one of the FINA GTRs that raced in the Silverstone event of the '96 BPR Global GT Champioship, and it also raced at LeMans in 1996 as well. This car was mostly white with blue flanks and rear when Tony purchased it. It still had the BMW/FINA checkered flag graphics running down the middle of the car from nose to tail, starting off red and then switching to blue and then fading to turquoise as it reached the rear of the car. The rest of the sponsor decals had been removed.
Tony decided to send #16R to the factory for a complete refit, having them convert the car to the look of an F1 LM. They recently completed the work and the car is being transported to Australia now and should be on site within about two weeks time.
Both #13R and photos of the freshened #16R appear on the Maranello Motorsports website here:
[url]http://www.maranellomotorsport.com/sales.asp[/url]
There was one other McLaren F1 in New Zealand from 1994 to 2000, but that car is now in the USA. It was the 4th prototype built of the McLaren F1 - chassis 'XP4'. The NZ owner was Sir Roger Bhatnagar. I saw this car in person a few weeks ago in Monterey, CA where it's current owner had it on display. It wears a beautiful Electric Blue paint and looks incredible in person.
[QUOTE=F1_Master]There wasn't a white one when I went there! :([/QUOTE]
Wow!! You went to the ZAZ Museum? That's incredibly cool! :cool: When did you do that, and what cars were there? Did you happen to go on one of the days when the engines were started? I hear those are the only days when photos inside the museum are allowed, but obviously photos have been snuck out from other times as well. Please tell me all that you remember, send it via PM if you would like. Thanks! :)
>8^)
ER
I went with my cousins. Unfornately, we didn't stay long.
They had the F1 LM, and F1 GT there and alot more.
Its been nearly a year since I went, but I remember alot of cars. I'm pretty sure there was a yellow F50, the 1st yellow one I saw.
I'd like to go back, but don't have the time.
Actually, I think my time for cars is limited. I start college in a little over a week. :(
Peloton you speak of a picture in there, I'm assuming that that was as part of the reply to the PM.
Apparently a F1 was seen on father's day in melbourne parked right in the CBD. This was such a large event that it made the newspapers. They only showed a b&w photograph, so I still don't know the original colour...
[QUOTE=Sauc3]Peloton you speak of a picture in there, I'm assuming that that was as part of the reply to the PM. [/QUOTE]
Actually, my comment "This is the car in the photo you have." was in response to clutch-monkey's statement:
[QUOTE=clutch-monkey]all i have is a pic of a silver one in a showroom (maranello motorsports) next to two red F40s and one yellow F50.[/QUOTE]
F1 Master - were you able to take any photos there? :confused:
>8^)
ER