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McLaren P1 2013-2015
[B]McLaren P1™[/B]
[LIST][*]Instant Power Assist System (IPAS) provides astonishing acceleration: 0 to 300 km/h takes less than 17 seconds, more than 23 per cent faster than the legendary McLaren F1[*]Top speed electronically limited to 350 km/h[*]To maintain exclusivity, production will be strictly limited to 375 units[*]Pricing to start from £866,000 on the road; fully equipped as standard for road and track use[*][URL="http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45201"]Production model is almost unchanged from the original design study[/URL][/LIST]
McLaren Automotive has released the final numbers, images and information relating to its phenomenal McLaren P1™ ahead of a global reveal in just a few days at the 83rd International Geneva Motor Show.
The race-inspired Instant Power Assist System (IPAS) gives the McLaren P1™ astonishing performance. Zero to 100km/h will take less than 3 seconds, zero to 200 km/h under 7 seconds, and zero to 300 km/h will be achieved in no more than 17 seconds. Putting that into perspective, that’s 5 seconds faster than the legendary McLaren F1 road car. Top speed is electronically limited to 350 km/h.
McLaren has been engaging with potential customers actively in the last few months to get their views on the McLaren P1™, about the car’s styling. Their unanimous verdict on the styling was not to change the car presented last September in Paris. So unusually, the McLaren P1™ has translated to production form with very little change. In fact just one, the addition of LTR ducts ahead of each of the front wheels to further aid cooling and optimise downforce.
McLaren has closely monitored demand so as to maintain exclusivity, and announced a production number of just 375 units – a figure that will ensure the McLaren P1™ will remain a rarity and, if spotted on the road, an unforgettable sight.
McLaren has also announced that the car will cost from £866,000 on the road with a specification that fully equips the car for both road and track use. The company prides itself on designing performance cars that their owners can use regularly so the McLaren P1™ comes comprehensively equipped as standard with an array of colour and trim alternatives from which the customer will be able to choose as well as visible carbon fibre in the cabin. The options list is limited to only bespoke content that a customer might wish to add through McLaren Special Operations, and fitted luggage.
As already announced, the McLaren P1™ will have the combined force of two highly-efficient powerplants, offering the optimum mix of superb throttle response, day-to-day drivability and top speed. A mid-mounted 3.8-litre twin-turbo V8 petrol engine is substantially enhanced featuring, for example, larger turbochargers and a highly effective electric motor, to give a combined output of 916PS (903 bhp) and a maximum torque figure of 900Nm. This ensures instantaneous throttle response through the rev range, more akin to a naturally aspirated engine. Emissions of less than 200g/km on the combined cycle are reduced to zero in full electric drive mode, while the Formula 1-derived DRS and IPAS technologies offer an increase in straight-line speed and an instant boost of power.
The tyres fitted to the McLaren P1™ are specially developed P Zero Corsas, which have been developed with McLaren’s technology partner, Pirelli. The team at Pirelli has been involved throughout the entire development programme, and this has seen the tyre testing phase integrated into the schedule, as a key performance component. The final compound and construction has been developed and optimised during testing, and the end result is a tyre that is finely tuned specifically to the performance and handling characteristics.
To rein in the power produced by the twin powerplants, the McLaren P1™ is designed to offer braking performance more associated with a GT3 or sports racing car. Developed by McLaren’s Formula 1 partner Akebono, the system features a new type of carbon ceramic disc, which has previously seen service in space, but never before used on a road car. Stronger than conventional carbon ceramic, the material dissipates heat more effectively, giving the highly efficient braking system exceptional stopping and cooling capability. The system also boasts significantly reduced weight, and a bespoke ceramic layer coats both friction surfaces to give an attractive mirrored finish.
One surprising feature is that the car can also be driven solely in electric mode. In city driving, with an average speed of 30 mph, this could mean up to a 20km range. More than enough for an owner to enter, for example, a city centre Zero Emissions Zone, have dinner and return home.
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I was just reading about this in a spanish motoring website and I thought... "even if I had the money I wouldn't be interested"...
Things have just gone out of control for supercars these days.
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[quote=Ferrer;992427]I was just reading about this in a spanish motoring website and I thought... "even if I had the money I wouldn't be interested"...
Things have just gone out of control for supercars these days.[/quote]
But really, when has it not been like this. We live in an era when a Toyota Camry is a 14 sec car, something that used to be considered fast in an era where big V8 roam the land. In order to make something super, they have to shoot much higher.
People can go on about driving pleasure and whatever blah. When someone wants to dump money on something extreme, exclusive and fast, they'll look at one of these things.
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[quote=RacingManiac;992429]But really, when has it not been like this. We live in an era when a Toyota Camry is a 14 sec car, something that used to be considered fast in an era where big V8 roam the land. In order to make something super, they have to shoot much higher.
People can go on about driving pleasure and whatever blah. When someone wants to dump money on something extreme, exclusive and fast, they'll look at one of these things.[/quote]
Well yes.
But in the real world all this performance simply can't be used.
I presume than in the days of the Countach and Testarossa (and earlier) despite those cars having much higher performance than normal saloons and hatchbacks you could still get close to the limit (or at least closer than you can this), so that the magic was still there.
I think that this (and the Agera, the Huayra, etc) have a different problem than say a GT-R. It's not that you are not feeling involved, it is that you'll never get even remotely close to the limit, so what's the point?
Like we were discussing in the "State of the Car" thread; performance will always sell even if only for having the ultimate. There are people which are like this, and I respect them, but I'm not one of them. Basically I want to feel that I could get up to at least 80 or 85% of what the car can do. In this or any other supercar I doubt you'd get passed 60 or 65%.
So definitley the current crop of supercars aren't for me.
Not that I can afford them anyway.
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[quote=Ferrer;992430]Well yes.
But in the real world all this performance simply can't be used.
I presume than in the days of the Countach and Testarossa (and earlier) despite those cars having much higher performance than normal saloons and hatchbacks you could still get close to the limit (or at least closer than you can this), so that the magic was still there.
[/quote]
You would have to be as nuts/wealthy to buy this as to drive a Countach on the public roads.
As for the P1: It is ugly, but I will withhold judgment until they are distributed amongst and reviewed by the journoes.
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[quote=f6fhellcat13;992435]You would have to be as nuts/wealthy to buy this as to drive a Countach on the public roads.[/quote]
I'm sure some of the bad rep of the Countach is exaggeration.
The bit about having to park it with the doors open, at least.
Probably.
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I think in the era of Countach, within its time, its just as crazy to drive them on public road as well as approach its limit. Tires are crappier, brakes are crappier...etc
I think the proposition is no different. The cars in general is better now with a more sorted design and so forth that makes them more use friendly. I'd also say though in the time of Countach, the idea of a track day is not nearly as prevalent as it is today. People who want to drive these cars at the limit will have a chance to do so more than they used to. At the end of the day though only a small portion of the owners of these cars will drive them often anyway, and even smaller subset of that will bring them to a track, and I don't think that has ever changed since the advent of supercars...
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[quote=RacingManiac;992438]I think in the era of Countach, within its time, its just as crazy to drive them on public road as well as approach its limit. [B]Tires are crappier, brakes are crappier[/B]...etc[/quote]
Indeed. And there was less acceleration and less speed. Which meant you could use it more often.
There's also the point about how usage of car's performance has become increasingly penalised (fines) and increasingly difficult (popularity of the car) and increasingly unpopular (uproar in the media against speed). So even if maxing out a supercar in the 70's was still mad the elements were slightly less against you.
Just a final question, what do you think is more difficult/dangerous to get to the limit; a Mk2 3.8 Jag or a brand new XFR? I think it's the latter, despite the increased technology, or precisely because of that.
(By the way, the Countach was a particularly bad example. Can I change it for... uh... I don't know whatever user-friendly supercar there was before the NSX? :p)
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Forgive me for being in Top Gear mode but I'm actually really excited to see how fast this thing will be on a track (that is, their track), more as a science experiment than anything. I was pretty blown away by the Huayra's performance and can't help but wonder how this would compare.
That being said, I would rather have a Stratos Stradale, a Miura, and a Ferrari Daytona for the cost of either the P1 or the Huayra. I just don't see the point in either of them.
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View from above is pretty good, rear end is OK (minus some details), but the front and sides of the body nearly made my eyes bleed. Gosh, this car is ugly as hell! Like Frankenstein built from various pieces not corresponding with each other by any means. And the whole body architecture seems rather out of proportion. The only good thing is that it looked even worse on pre-launch pictures. Sorry, but no :(
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Browsing the teenager's website of all knowledge I've discovered they claim the engine in this was originally based on the Nissan V8 engine from R390.
So actually this car has the [I]exact same engine[/I] as [URL="http://www.nissanusa.com/trucks/titan?next=header.vehicles.postcard.vlp.image"]this truck[/URL].
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[quote=Ferrer;998672]Browsing the teenager's website of all knowledge I've discovered they claim the engine in this was originally based on the Nissan V8 engine from R390.
So actually this car has the [I]exact same engine[/I] as [URL="http://www.nissanusa.com/trucks/titan?next=header.vehicles.postcard.vlp.image"]this truck[/URL].[/quote]
I'm not doubting you, but do you have any references on that? I would be absolutely fascinated to know if that's true. :D
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[quote=tpd2;998733]I'm not doubting you, but do you have any references on that? I would be absolutely fascinated to know if that's true. :D[/quote]
My source is the teenager's website of all knowledge, sometimes known also as wikipedia.
The funny thing is, I wasn't looking for McLaren or Nissan, but rather for prewar Bentelys and ended up in a Nissan-engined McLaren.
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is this the same engine (block) as currently being used in LMP2 cars?
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Well apparently, current LMP2 cars use the VK engine, which isn't the same as the VRH (the one McLaren has). Nevertheless some components from the VH and VK Nissan engines were used when designing the VRH-series engines, so in a way yes I guess.
Although the short answer is, I'm afraid, no.
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This was a development of the engine from the TWR-built car R390. I think Ricardo developed and owned the design...
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Take a listen to the video at 9 minutes, or watch the whole video if you want.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb8tGX-HPQE"]The McLaren P1 Test. On Road and Track - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]
Chris Harris asked how come there wasn't a Nurburgring time and he also asked was it because of the hybrid system. He basically said yeah, we basically shoehorned the hybrid system in at the last minute.
Seems a bit unprofessional of McLaren to seemingly half bake the hybrid system. I understand they're a small company compared to Ferrari or Porsche, but why include the hybrid system if it's not 100% perfect?
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He didn't say that the hybrid system was bolted in at the last minute, he said that the [I]latest/greatest version[/I] of it was. Big difference. The P1 was always always a hybrid vehicle, but they went through many versions of the system.
Extrapolating from that, I'd assume the reason they didn't release an official time is because they want to go back and try again - they probably didn't feel they'd extracted the most out of the system, and maybe the final production version changed from the one they had there, out of all the extra testing they did.
Or something. I'm sure the hybrid system software and maybe hardware will be updated over the car's lifetime (see also the 12C) but it seems unfair to call it 'half baked'.
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The fact that the engine despite being based on the same architecture as the 12C but have a different block and different design means there is no "last minute shoehorning". Most cars gets a ton of design revisions in many of the core system before its release(and sometimes after). And more more complicated the systems are, the more scope for revisions....
Witness the fact that how many times Nissan have revised the GTR's calibration in its life with little actual change to hardware, or the 12C have received different engine programming multiple times in a model year, or that Lexus IS-F got basically a simple suspension retune between model year and gone something like 6 secs faster around the same track...
P1 is freaking state of the art. The amount of integration and optimization for something like that has got to be insane, with the amount of active systems in-play. And unlike the 918 the weight penalty does not seem to be as significant. From the looks of it also the use of all that electronics seem to be largely invisible to the end user, which is key to delivering a good driving experience...
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[quote=pimento;1003850]Extrapolating from that, I'd assume the reason they didn't release an official time is because they want to go back and try again - they probably didn't feel they'd extracted the most out of the system, and maybe the final production version changed from the one they had there, out of all the extra testing they did.[/quote]
Or, in other words, they were afraid that their million quid supercar would get handily beaten by the 918. So they said the [I]Duracells[/I] weren't up to the task and call it a day...
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Perhaps I was a little harsh with my words, but it seems like the McLaren isn't all that ready yet.
In any case, the Porsche 918 is still much prettier than the P1, and that's still my first pick amongst the 3 hybrid hyper cars.
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[quote=Ferrer;1003853]Or, in other words, they were afraid that their million quid supercar would get handily beaten by the 918. So they said the [I]Duracells[/I] weren't up to the task and call it a day...[/quote]
Unlikely, considering the P1 is ~6-700lb lighter than the 918, even with just gas engine the power to weight ratio is almost matching 918s(0.249 bhp/lb for 918 vs 0.243bhp/lb for P1, per Wiki figure)
Its a matter of how much faster the P1 is.
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[quote=RacingManiac;1003851]P1 is freaking state of the art. The amount of integration and optimization for something like that has got to be insane, with the amount of active systems in-play. And unlike the 918 the weight penalty does not seem to be as significant. From the looks of it also the use of all that electronics seem to be largely invisible to the end user, which is key to delivering a good driving experience...[/quote]
The weight of all the electric gubbins is 200kg.
The numbers suggest that the P1 will be faster than the 918, but I'm sure there'll be a whole pile of comparos pitting them together. It may be that the 918's AWD system will give it some traction advantage in tighter tracks and off the line, but ultimately the P1's power and weight advantage will likely have it come out on top.
Now, the TheFerrari vs P1...
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[quote=pimento;1003856]The weight of all the electric gubbins is 200kg.
[/quote]
On a car that weighs 1400kg. To put that in context, Carrera GT, a car that can hardly be considered as loaded with excessive extras, weighs only 30kg less. With probably closer to 300bhp less power and less downforce and no electronics aids....Enzo Weighs only 10-20kg less than CGT....
918 Spyder weighs 1700+kg....
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When I was younger, the [I]trifecta[/I] as me and some close friends called a trio of supercars was the CGT, Enzo, and SLR. Now, we have a new trifecta, and to be properly absorbed, the Ferrari LaFerrari, McLaren T'McLaren, and Porsche DiePorsche must be compared all together in a comparo.
And what a comparo it'd be. Also, the nicknames of the three cars is ™Kitdy.
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I think it'll be sometimes before that happens. Ferrari is notably anal about that kind of stuff....Need to wait for EVO and their rich owner contributors to get their hands on those cars...
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[quote=Kitdy;1003858]When I was younger, the [I]trifecta[/I] as me and some close friends called a trio of supercars was the CGT, Enzo, and SLR. Now, we have a new trifecta, and to be properly absorbed, the Ferrari LaFerrari, McLaren T'McLaren, and Porsche DiePorsche must be compared all together in a comparo.
And what a comparo it'd be. Also, the nicknames of the three cars is ™Kitdy.[/quote]
I remember those times, I was in the first years of high school during that era of cars. Swap out that SLR for a Ford GT and that was my favorite issue of Motortrend.
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[quote=RacingManiac;1003855]Unlikely, considering the P1 is ~6-700lb lighter than the 918, even with just gas engine the power to weight ratio is almost matching 918s(0.249 bhp/lb for 918 vs 0.243bhp/lb for P1, per Wiki figure)
Its a matter of how much faster the P1 is.[/quote]
Well, the GT-R does have a worse power to weight ratio than the ZR1, doesn't it?
I personally couldn't care less, but after all the hype, the DNF status of the P1's Nurburgring lap is, at least, suspicious...
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[url="http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1403_mclaren_p1_how_i_set_the_motor_trend_production_car_record/"]McLaren P1: How I Set The Motor Trend Production-Car Record - Motor Trend
[/url]
Frankly, I don't see this car being slower than much of anything in the near future...
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Jay Leno just took delivery of his in the states.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqOLMtZufsI#t=494"]2015 McLaren P1 - Jay Lenos Garage - YouTube[/ame]
I forgot he also owns all of the most recent McLarens...
Also just noticed, the McLaren does not have center locking rims like Porsche does- it's a lot easier to change tires that way.
A bit of a side note- he loves Italian cars but he doesn't seem to own any Ferraris. I wonder why that is. He has Lamborghinis and owns a few Maseratis, but just doesn't seem to own a Ferrari.
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Some sort of tryst with a Ferrari dealer that's he's still sour from prevents him from buying them, I think. It's a shame, because, as the consummate car guy, Leno would get good ones.
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[quote=RacingManiac;1004169][url="http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1403_mclaren_p1_how_i_set_the_motor_trend_production_car_record/"]McLaren P1: How I Set The Motor Trend Production-Car Record - Motor Trend
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Frankly, I don't see this car being slower than much of anything in the near future...[/quote]
LaFerrari?
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[quote=f6fhellcat13;1005585]Some sort of tryst with a Ferrari dealer that's he's still sour from prevents him from buying them, I think. It's a shame, because, as the consummate car guy, Leno would get good ones.[/quote]
I agree, he seems to be the most indiscriminate car fanatic- he literally loves everything car and motorcycle related- Tatra, Chevy, Ford, GM, Honda and Maserati- you name any significant marque, he'll have it. Except Ferrari.
Heck, his whole garage is a good running timeline of automotive history.
Too bad, Ferrari could have had a lot of free publicity.
My only regret is that his earlier garage episodes were shot for pre HD quality YouTube.
[quote=Kitdy;1005588]LaFerrari?[/quote]
Perhaps. They're the only wild card now.
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I think LaFerrari might, but McLaren seems to have a hell of a launch control.....The way they can make a 2WD car hook up on relatively modest tires with that much power is unreal...
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If there is a wagging contest at the Nurburgring, I'd give the LaFerrari the nod over T'McLaren, ahead of DiePorsche.
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[quote=NSXType-R;1005592]Too bad, Ferrari could have had a lot of free publicity.[/quote]
Yea, they're struggling to move the iro.. aluminium. :rolleyes:
I like that he focusses more on what people might not already know about. Keeps it more interesting.