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Alfa Romeo 4C 2013-
[url="http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/5450/Alfa-Romeo-4C.html"]2013 Alfa Romeo 4C - Images, Specifications and Information[/url]
[URL="http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43078&highlight=alfa+4c"]Alfa Romeo 4C Concept 2011
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Alfa is saying $60,000 for the U.S. market. This seems high for a car whose performance likely won't exceed an up-engined Alfiata by that much.
all that said; Do Want.
EDIT: Even as a Lotus competitor, which is not what Alfa should be making, this doesn't quite add up. The car will still be $10,000-15,000 more expensive than an Elise which will likely be lighter.
All of this could be forgiven if the car was a looker, but it isn't.
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It is about time that they come up with new affordable models.
They only have the MiTo and Guilietta, and now the 4C. The new Giulia is not promised before 2014 and the 159 has been phased out years ago.
I really hope the future of the brand is more promising.
I [I]do[/I] still love my 147 BTW.
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Wow, from the rear it definitely looks a lot like a Lotus Elise.
Anything affordable from Alfa Romeo is a plus, the last car they sold new in the US was the 8C. Yeah, like that was attainable.
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[quote=f6fhellcat13;991917]Alfa is saying $60,000 for the U.S. market. This seems high for a car whose performance likely won't exceed an up-engined Alfiata by that much.
all that said; Do Want.
EDIT: Even as a Lotus competitor, which is not what Alfa should be making, this doesn't quite add up. The car will still be $10,000-15,000 more expensive than an Elise which will likely be lighter.
All of this could be forgiven if the car was a looker, but it isn't.[/quote]
So it's a KTM Coupé thing with an automatic and a preposterous price tag.
I'm sorry but no.
I'll wait for the Spider.
Thank you very much.
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Though I am more optimistic than Ferrer, I have a few questions for that shifty Canaditalian:
Why midengined?
Why carbon-fiber?
Why drop a sackful of lire on the aforementioned things only to neglect the styling? It looks unfinished in my eyes.
Why go for the microengine/macroturbo combination on a car that is too expensive for fuel economy to be that much of a concern? Drop in the V6.
Also, why release it around the time of the new Spider?
You can do better, Serg.
[quote=Man of Steel;991919]I [I]do[/I] still love my 147 BTW.[/quote]
I don't think that was ever in doubt. :)
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The "everyman" Alfa based on the next Miata is still coming, this can serve as a nice halo....seems people are seeing prototype of this running around Michigan already, I hope I can catch a glimpse of it at some point considering Chrysler is like 2 mins away from me...
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Hellcat, you can't judge based on those, they just look off. Check out some pics of it not in that stupid matte red paint they released it in.
[url="http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/gallery/alfa-romeo-4c-displayed-at-villa-deste-in-all-its-glory-photo-gallery_7.jpg"]http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/gallery/alfa-romeo-4c-displayed-at-villa-deste-in-all-its-glory-photo-gallery_7.jpg[/url]
[url="http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/gallery/alfa-romeo-4c-displayed-at-villa-deste-in-all-its-glory-photo-gallery_5.jpg"]http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/gallery/alfa-romeo-4c-displayed-at-villa-deste-in-all-its-glory-photo-gallery_5.jpg[/url]
Outside of that, why shouldn't Alfa make a Lotus competitor? Alfa's have never been heavy, maybe not as light as Lotus, but they have been making pure driving cars for a lot longer than Lotus has been around. Also, a dual clutch semi is far from an automatic. There's a reason why you can't get an Enzo or a 458 with a gated shifter; semi autos are better transmissions for driving fast. (This coming from a guy who loves manuals and old cars.) The four cylinder 1750cc turbocharged is quite a bit lighter than a V6 for similar power output and Alfa has a long history with four cylinders of that particular engine displacement. Also, the Exige is still just a hair over a ton and this Alfa is supposed to come in under 1950 lbs. So, that carbon fiber thing is definitely working out for them.
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[quote=xander18;991930]Hellcat, you can't judge based on those, they just look off. Check out some pics of it not in that stupid matte red paint they released it in.
[/quote]
You are referring to pictures of the concept. Which might be slightly better looking. Even though these look a bit wrong too me too.
[quote=xander18;991930]
Outside of that, why shouldn't Alfa make a Lotus competitor? Alfa's have never been heavy, maybe not as light as Lotus, but they have been making pure driving cars for a lot longer than Lotus has been around. Also, a dual clutch semi is far from an automatic. There's a reason why you can't get an Enzo or a 458 with a gated shifter; semi autos are better transmissions for driving fast. (This coming from a guy who loves manuals and old cars.) The four cylinder 1750cc turbocharged is quite a bit lighter than a V6 for similar power output and Alfa has a long history with four cylinders of that particular engine displacement. Also, the Exige is still just a hair over a ton and this Alfa is supposed to come in under 1950 lbs. So, that carbon fiber thing is definitely working out for them.[/quote]
Yes the have the heritage to make small sportscars. But using carbon fiber makes it more expensive. And what Alfa needs right now is sales and sales in big numbers. This isn't going to be there Alfas "Panda" so to speak.
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[quote=Duell;991932]Yes the have the heritage to make small sportscars. But using carbon fiber makes it more expensive. And what Alfa needs right now is sales and sales in big numbers. This isn't going to be there Alfas "Panda" so to speak.[/quote]
Neither has been the MiTo which looks a bit like Frogeye Sprite hardtop on steroids... And then we have Chryslancia. I hope they win a lot of money, Fiat, because in terms of product for their Italian branch desirability is going down the drain...
Also, despite the different price tags the 4C and Spider are pretty much aimed at the same customer and they will end up cannibalising themselves probably (unless the limited production 4C ends shortly before the Spider is launched).
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[quote=xander18;991930]Also, a dual clutch semi is far from an automatic. There's a reason why you can't get an Enzo or a 458 with a gated shifter; semi autos are better transmissions for driving fast. (This coming from a guy who loves manuals and old cars.)[/quote]
If you are really serious about driving (which can, in some cases, be different from going fast) a proper clutch-pedal manual is still the way to go. In terms of actual real life road use dual clutch automatics are as involving as modern torque converter automatics.
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[quote=Ferrer;991935]If you are really serious about driving (which can, in some cases, be different from going fast) a proper clutch-pedal manual is still the way to go. [/quote]
Opinion /= fact
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[quote=RacingManiac;991956]Opinion /= fact[/quote]
So says the DSG heretic.
Also, Ferrer = fact.
I would actually like to drive stick and get a hold of it again so to speak. If I did, then I think I would appreciate it more. As it stands, autos and DSGs aren't too bothersome for me, and I ain't even driven a DSG yet.
This car may not make sense, but it is good that it is being made. I have wanted more botiqueish non-Zonda priced cars around. Think Lotus. I consider this a car in that vein.
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[quote=Duell;991932]Yes the have the heritage to make small sportscars. But using carbon fiber makes it more expensive. And what Alfa needs right now is sales and sales in big numbers. This isn't going to be there Alfas "Panda" so to speak.[/quote]
At the time of writing my other comment I had not heard that they were only planning on making 2000. To me, that ruins what they're trying to do with the car. They already sold a limited run, poster fodder 'dream car' (the 8C) in the US, now they need the cars that people will actually buy. They could probably have sold 2000 4Cs in New Jersey alone based on the number of people who would see a shiny red Italian sports car, think Ferrari and buy it for the sub $100k price tag and prestige. (Then I could buy a used one for $30k like my friend's Elise and race it :).) I was optimistic that the dual clutch box was because of superior driving characteristics, not making it accessible to non-enthusiasts. Now I'm not so sure. I still have faith that the only reason to work to make a sub 2000 lbs car instead of just going in the more reasonable 2600-3000lbs range with a more powerful V6 is for mass production.
That being said, there's only ONE source that anyone is citing for that 2000 car production run and that's the leaked info from the European dealer conference. Maybe that was just 2000 for Europe, or for Switzerland (where the dealer who leaked the info was from). The first place I saw that info was Car and Driver (link below) and they said 'It's believed that...'
It just seems like everything about this car is designed for larger production.
[url="http://blog.caranddriver.com/details-of-2014-alfa-romeo-4c-emerge-from-european-dealer-meeting/"]Details of 2014 Alfa Romeo 4C Emerge from European Dealer Meeting – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog[/url]
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[quote=Kitdy;991957]
Also, Ferrer = fact.
[/quote]
Meh, Ferrer = Automotive Hipster...:D
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[quote=RacingManiac;991976]Meh, Ferrer = Automotive Hipster...:D[/quote]
Yeah man. Him and hellcat.
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[quote=RacingManiac;991976]Meh, Ferrer = Automotive Hipster...:D[/quote]
[quote=Kitdy;991997]Yeah man. Him and hellcat.[/quote]
Impossible.
I'm actually from 1927 and I've managed to time travel to 2013 in some way.
Or something.
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I do agree that this car is begging for a manual.
At 60,000 Euros, you'd imagine that this is going up against the Boxster and the Lotus Elise too. You'd think that it'd be smart to offer a manual as well, as they both have them too.
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Drug-dealer wheels (bigger at the back for some reason...) and ultra-low profile tyres.
A sure way to ruin the ride [U]and[/U] the handling.
I'm out.
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I actually really like this little car. Enough Lotus to distinctly say it's in the same sort of class. Very nicely balanced design, it was instantly pleasing to my eyes. The rear even has a hint of Ferrari - must be that Italian blood. But $60k? Heck no.
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[quote=Ferrer;992398]Drug-dealer wheels (bigger at the back for some reason...) and ultra-low profile tyres.
A sure way to ruin the ride [U]and[/U] the handling.
I'm out.[/quote]
I kind of like the rotary phone dial wheels. But I agree they are a tad large.
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[quote=Ferrer;992398]Drug-dealer wheels (bigger at the back for some reason...) and ultra-low profile tyres.
A sure way to ruin the ride [U]and[/U] the handling.
I'm out.[/quote]
That can be fixed easily...won't stop me if I were to buy one...
Big wheels is one trend I agree that needs to be killed....but extremely unlikely....
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[quote=RacingManiac;992432]That can be fixed easily...won't stop me if I were to buy one...
Big wheels is one trend I agree that needs to be killed....but extremely unlikely....[/quote]
I suspect you are right. If you are really comitted a car like this, this is something that can be sorted out.
However if you are like me (a person who can't be arsed with all the trouble that involves modifying a factory car with aftermaket stuff to make it suit personal tastes) you'll test drive one, find the ride isn't right, that it grips too much and simply move on.
There's also another problem. I'm not mechanically minded enough to know what would I have to change in car to solve a problem I have spotted. The current BMW 1 Series is a case in point.
When I test drive the little Bimmer, I remember feeling that the car didn't take corners cleanly, at the limit when taking a corner body control wasn't well... controlled enough if you know what I mean. I though it was the tyres of the particular unit, because in every other aspect the car was still very good.
It was much later that, while reading a review in the spanish Autoblog site, I discovered that it wasn't the tyres but rather that the suspension was set up all wrong, which made the body move about the limit.
So you sometimes modifying isn't necessarily the answer if you are not expert (like me). You could actually end up with something worse.
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Apparently I was wrong. The car doesn't use the Dallara chasis, but rather a bespoke one designed between Alfa Romeo and Maserati. I guess that also explains the high price and makes the car slightly more interesting.
Still not enough to get past the automatic and the 60k price tag, I guess.
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[url="http://www.carscoops.com/2013/03/alfa-romeo-4c-launch-edition-will-be.html"]Alfa Romeo 4C Launch Edition Will be Made in 1,000 Units, Cost 60,000 in Europe [w/Video] - Carscoops[/url]
60 grand and you don't even get power steering!
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Although I am not convinced by the looks and price tag, the driving set up and performance figures of this car are inspiring and definitely more then 'Alfa-worthy'. It would be better if they installed an option to turn off the power steering instead or made it adjustable for track or city driving.
However, I understand the mindset as modern cars' handling from my experiences is ruined by electric power steering, just like in modern Renaults, which just feels unnnatural. But mechanical/hydraulic power steering works fine for me (like in the 147). You get much feedback in the steering wheel, and after all we are driving, not floating on magic carpets!
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[quote=Ferrer;992640][url="http://www.carscoops.com/2013/03/alfa-romeo-4c-launch-edition-will-be.html"]Alfa Romeo 4C Launch Edition Will be Made in 1,000 Units, Cost 60,000 in Europe [w/Video] - Carscoops[/url]
60 grand and you don't even get power steering![/quote]
Judging by the current Alfa sales pace, it will take many, many years to sell the lot.
I hope it will happen before a commemorative edition arrives.
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One of the things for which the Lotus' are most praised is the manual steering.
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Alfa Romeo 4C Launch Edition
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I like this little car. The styling is spot-on to my eyes, and the chassis seems nicely focused for what it does. The whole car screams Alfa to me, as in the Alfa Romeo of its glory days. Get rid of that dopey boy-racer steering wheel and put a more realistic price tag on it...i'd say it's an intriguing choice.
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It is much nicer in white. The headlights are a hideous mess, but I have warmed to it. It looks small.
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And that concludes our Italian lesson of the day.
Montaggio sospensione anteriore.
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Are headlight covers optional equipment? Those exposed headlights make it looks really cheap in my opinion.
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The rear of that car makes me think of contraception :)
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[quote=NSXType-R;999463]Are headlight covers optional equipment? Those exposed headlights make it looks really cheap in my opinion.[/quote]
Headlight covers are perfectly in tune with the car's character - cheap and made of plastic.