whos fed up with dodge?

[Matra et Alpine]

BTW OHC was used before OHV engines, the OHV design is not "outdated."

Gottlieb-Daimler engine pushrod......


NOW, the origianl Otto engine LOOKS overhead cam but that's only because you always see the engine upseide down The piston's at the bottom and the long rod is the valve opener. UnderHead Valve



Not looking to argue, but just making sure the original engines configuratiosn are known adn understood.

[Quiggs]

Here we go again...

[Godlaus]

GM already did that, remember the (C4)Corvette ZR1? That car failed misserably, it was MUCH more expencive thanks to the heavy ass DOHC engine. That LT5 made "only" 400hp form 5.7L, just like the LS6, but the LS6 is cheaper, lighter, and physically smaller, so now let me ask, which is better? The LT5, thanks to its "high tech" design was 100lbs heavier than the OHV LT1 of the time, and over 200lbs heavier than the current LS2 in the 05 Corvette. To sum things up, GM doesnt put a DOHC engine in the Corvette because that would raise cost, add weight (and lower performance), make little to no more power at the same RPM than the LS2, and increase physical size, making it more difficult to put the engine far back in the front of the chassis(for better weight distrabution).

there it is, a perfectly good answer to my question. Thanks..........

[izzy]

after the Lemon Caravan expirance, I lost all interest in dodge, and now they are making a bunch of boxes with fake hemi in thme, and overpricing them, Dodge must think we are friggin idiots right now!

the only not squarish cars left are the Stratus and the caravan, and I bet in a couple of years they will turn the caravan into a box and they'll replace the stratus with a boxmobile.

and also, the Neon is a good selling car and they are replacing it with a box car, WHO WANTS TO BUY A BIG FRIGGIN BOX< I DON"T WANNA BE SEEN IS THAT!!!!

what would you rathher have, a good sleek practical car or a big box, dodge is gonna really go in the hole like the 70's if they keep the tren dup, cause you see, the magnum is not reallyselling, ive only seen a few so i'm assuming that sales are slow.

Hey I'm with ya man! I've been driving Dodge's for 30+ years and I'm getting tired of the direction they are going. I had an original Charger 383c.i.('66), loved it, but a gas hog it was. 10mpg city/14hwy. I didn't care much then, I was single and gas was 35 cents per gal. I don't like the new Hemi for one reason...Gas Hog! I don't like the new 300C, a box and a gas hog. I walked into the showroom of the local dealer awhile back..salesman comes up to me and says with a big grin, "how'd like that new 300C?" I said, "it looks like a box and I thinking Chrysler styling is going backwards." His grin left his face and he moved onto another customer...

Price? They are all too blasted much! Oh, and for you guys that don't like the Neon, I have owned one for 11 years, it's a Great car. I pegged the speedometer once to see if it would, it does that and still 1000 rpm below redline. At 65mph I get 40 to 43 mpg....one time it got 44.1 That's my kind of car, excellent handling, great mpg and can go fast if I want to. At 90,000 miles it is still running strong with no problems at all.

Big pickups and SUVs...I have no use for em. My '71 Dodge Slant 6 with 4spd does everything I need to do, still getting 16mpg city/18hwy. I don't drive it much, just to the dumps, get some bark mulch or move some item on occassion. If I had OD on it, I'd get about 23 hwy.

[Matra et Alpine]

there it is, a perfectly good answer to my question. Thanks..........

Not ENTIRELY accurate but IS factual.

For example ther is NOT 100lbs in an overhead cam setup. SO in REALITY what is beign compared are 2 different BLOCK weights and cams. How much is the BLOCK different ? What about the alloys used ?? What about the productino volume, target profit and hence price variance for each ??

Too many variables for a "It's the OHC that did it" claim

[izzy]

I've been lobbying several car makers world wide to provide us with options on these new cars to tailor the engine and gear ratios the way we want to, like the old days. While traveling in Europe, I discovered that many European and Japanese makers have models in Europe, Great Britain and other countries that give superior mpg as opposed to the cars in the USA. On avg. most brands have at least 5 models that are not introduced here and never will be. From research I have done, a 1.6L to a 2.0L engine with the right gear set will achieve over 40mpg consistently, some as high as 48mpg. Now, I know some of you don't care how much of your hard earned cash you dump into the gas tank, as long as it looks great and goes like a rocket. That's fine. As for me, I don't want to take a sizeable share of my monthly income and put it in the gas tank. My Dodge gets over 40mpg and my Moto Guzzis get 50mpg or better, one gets 60mpg. With the high price of fuel now and still going up, I'm not gonna settle for anything less.

[Smokescreen]

[QUOTE=Godlaus]...Both the viper and the corvette still use pushrod engines...QUOTE]

And those pushrod engines have been among the best in GTS class racing for a few years now in the enduros at Daytona, Le Mans, and Sebring. I mean if it get the job done, why go further and complicate things?

[Godlaus]

[QUOTE=Smokescreen]

...Both the viper and the corvette still use pushrod engines...QUOTE]

And those pushrod engines have been among the best in GTS class racing for a few years now in the enduros at Daytona, Le Mans, and Sebring. I mean if it get the job done, why go further and complicate things?

To make a better car. Why does a ferrari f430 outperform a pushrod C6 z06 with a 3.5 liter engine? Maybe because it's better designed?

A DOHC variable valved 4 Valve/chamber street supercar has always outdone a pushrod 2 valve/chamber street supercar.

the only exception is the ford GT, which still amazes me, using a pushrod 32 valve and rivaling an enzo.

[johnnynumfiv]

To make a better car. Why does a ferrari f430 outperform a pushrod C6 z06 with a 3.5 liter engine? Maybe because it's better designed?

A DOHC variable valved 4 Valve/chamber street supercar has always outdone a pushrod 2 valve/chamber street supercar.

the only exception is the ford GT, which still amazes me, using a pushrod 32 valve and rivaling an enzo.

There are different aspects to look at when considering power output, the vavle train is just one part of that.

[Slicks]

Not ENTIRELY accurate but IS factual.

For example ther is NOT 100lbs in an overhead cam setup. SO in REALITY what is beign compared are 2 different BLOCK weights and cams. How much is the BLOCK different ? What about the alloys used ?? What about the productino volume, target profit and hence price variance for each ??

Too many variables for a "It's the OHC that did it" claim

Interesting enough, the lighter Lt1 had an iron block with aluminum heads, and the LT5 had both an aluminum block and heads.
The LT5 block is based off the Lt1 block, and I can easily see 3 extra cams, larger cylinder heads, and big chains all adding up to an extra 100lbs.

And the price difference is simply what I said, GM was using a new DOHC engine that cost them a pretty penny. Stop trying to defent DOHC, im not attacking it, im just showing the truth about it.

[Slicks]

To make a better car. Why does a ferrari f430 outperform a pushrod C6 z06 with a 3.5 liter engine? Maybe because it's better designed?

C6 Z06 # havent been released yet, how do you know that an F430 "beats" it?
The LS7 is making as much power and much more torque than the F430s engine.

A DOHC variable valved 4 Valve/chamber street supercar has always outdone a pushrod 2 valve/chamber street supercar.

Really? Like what?

the only exception is the ford GT, which still amazes me, using a pushrod 32 valve and rivaling an enzo.

The Ford GT is using DOHC... 32 valves would be an insane setup for a pushrod engine.

[Slicks]

I've been lobbying several car makers world wide to provide us with options on these new cars to tailor the engine and gear ratios the way we want to, like the old days. While traveling in Europe, I discovered that many European and Japanese makers have models in Europe, Great Britain and other countries that give superior mpg as opposed to the cars in the USA. On avg. most brands have at least 5 models that are not introduced here and never will be. From research I have done, a 1.6L to a 2.0L engine with the right gear set will achieve over 40mpg consistently, some as high as 48mpg. Now, I know some of you don't care how much of your hard earned cash you dump into the gas tank, as long as it looks great and goes like a rocket. That's fine. As for me, I don't want to take a sizeable share of my monthly income and put it in the gas tank. My Dodge gets over 40mpg and my Moto Guzzis get 50mpg or better, one gets 60mpg. With the high price of fuel now and still going up, I'm not gonna settle for anything less.

Bad comparo.
Cars in Europe and Japan has different gas from the US, and most European cars on the road are diesel, or so I hear.
On top of that the average European car is much lighter than the average American car.

[Smokescreen]

S7 is pushrod too, ya know. Now, are DOHC's still gonna beat that with TTs? I think once the Z06's numbers come out, it wil be a really close fight. But I'd go with the Vette; more power more torque, slightly lighter and developed with the C6-R. BTW, F430 has a 4.3.

[izzy]

Bad comparo.
Cars in Europe and Japan has different gas from the US, and most European cars on the road are diesel, or so I hear.
On top of that the average European car is much lighter than the average American car.

I didn't know the gasoline was different...do you know what the dif is? Also about 60 to 70% are diesel over there and diesel is much cheaper then gasoline. One can still get a rental car in gasoline...no problem, any brand. I saw 2 cars for sale in Austria(2 seaters) that were 1/2 the size of the old Toyota Tercels that had tiny little diesel engines of 400cc.

The point I'm trying to make is that with smaller engines and proper gearing, the cars in the USA can achieve 45-50mpg, but they won't produce them because not enough of us want that...SUVs are very hot in sales. But, with the gasoline and especially diesel going up, up, up....I think SUV sales will slip substantially. I once had a '73 Opel Wagon with a 1.9L engine, carb and 4spd that got 32mpg...With fuel injection and OD, I could have achieved well over 40mpg. That was 32 years ago, gas was 35 cents per gallon, now look at it. I've told all the car makers either via email or phone that they are not keeping up with mpg goals by any stretch of the imagination...if anything, they are slipping backwards... and what do they do? Stop production of the Toyota Celica, MR2 and Echo. GM stops production of their high mileage Geo. The Aveo replacement gets EPA of 10mpg less. Looking at this new Caliber to replace Neon, I bet a dollar to a doughnut that it won't come close to mpg of the Neon...Gas is going UP, mpg is going Down!

[izzy]

Interesting enough, the lighter Lt1 had an iron block with aluminum heads, and the LT5 had both an aluminum block and heads.
The LT5 block is based off the Lt1 block, and I can easily see 3 extra cams, larger cylinder heads, and big chains all adding up to an extra 100lbs.

And the price difference is simply what I said, GM was using a new DOHC engine that cost them a pretty penny. Stop trying to defent DOHC, im not attacking it, im just showing the truth about it.

In looking at the specs on the Vette vs. Ferrari, we are talking a minimal difference vs. a Huge price difference. The Chevy is by far the best deal going price wise and performance wise together. Will one be able to drive either one anywhere that won't get ya an expensive speeding ticket? Fun? Sure they are. Where will we go to the Salt Flats or the Nevada desert?