Results of Michelin investigation

[henk4]

Again their reference to the erection of a chicane which would have been in the interest in the spectators is made in such a way that the blame goes to the FIA or the track owners. They could also have admitted in this press release that making that chicane would have deteriorated the competitive position of the B-drivers, who did come up with a suitable tyre. Ignoring this is a sort of French arrogance implying that they are the "only" ones in the F1 world.

[fpv_gtho]

Allowing the track to be tested on sounds like a good idea, could prevent this ever happening again

[woodstock827]

does resurfacing really have THAT much effect on the track? it's that only suppose to make the track smoother, no cracks, etc? how is that gonna add load to the tyres if the bank angle stays the same?

i dun think there are any ways that the incident could be avoided..
option1) add the chicane and risk getting sued by insurance company and track owner if something happens (it also put more stress on the rest of the car and no one knows what's gonna happen to the car)
option2) slow down the M-cars and risk getting the fast car crash into slow car at turn 13
option3) delay/cancel the race and fans still don't get a race on that day....
option4) hold a race with 6 cars and get what we saw that day

anymore options??

and o yea... getting injured in America would more likely result in a lawsuit than anywhere in the world... it's a lawyer's heaven...

[pimento]

Given that the teams would be suing the FIA or Michellin over an injury, it'd probably be in France, so the fact that it happened in America would have no bearing on it.

[Jack_Bauer]

Man, I wish all the players in this little political battle would stop airing the dirty laundrey in public like this, or at least wait 'til after tomorrow's hearing. Now the big boss man of Michelin, Edouard Michelin, has waded into public battle with Max Mosley. It seems he wrote a private letter or consternation to Max, and then decided to release its contents to the media despite complaining about Max doing a similar thing last week. I guess all's fair in love and F1 politics...

I feel necessary to let you know how discontented I was of both the nature of your contentions - which are based on mere allegations - and the suspicious and inappropriate tone employed. Michelin is very disappointed about the way the United States Grand Prix turned out. However, safety is and has always been the first priority for Michelin; it will never change its stance on this principle, whether for tyres for competition or for any other purpose. It is Michelin's reputation for excellence, its refusal to compromise on quality or thoroughness that have made Michelin the leading manufacturer of tyres in the world.

Your telefax addresses sensitive issues and raises the importance of confidentiality in addressing these matters. It was brought to my attention that the 21 June 2005 correspondence was circulated widely in the press worldwide and on the Internet. Such disclosure, which contains erroneous allegations, may have damaging consequences on Michelin's reputation.

Over the last days, you have repeatedly blamed us in the press, directly or indirectly. Will you at least recognize publicly that we have taken a courageous, honest and transparent stance for the safety of the pilots? I hope you will be fair enough to acknowledge that Michelin, with its seven partner teams, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Formula One Management and two other teams, did the maximum to preserve a true and safe race by proposing a very serious and pragmatic alternative. This is all the opposite of a boycott!

Contrary to what is alluded in your publicized telefax, there is no reason to worry about the fundamental reliability of Michelin. I can confirm that Michelin will be present with safe and competitive tyres at the forthcoming Grand Prix races.

[Matra et Alpine]

does resurfacing really have THAT much effect on the track? it's that only suppose to make the track smoother, no cracks, etc? how is that gonna add load to the tyres if the bank angle stays the same?

GRIP.
Better grip allows higher speeds which increases downforce and compression forces on tyre walls.
Better grip means less tyre slip which means more torsional force in the tyre wall

[nota]

Given that the teams would be suing the FIA or Michellin over an injury, it'd probably be in France, so the fact that it happened in America would have no bearing on it.

You might be underestimating the broad sweep of US tort law, and the guile & expertise of American lawyers specialising within

[woodstock827]

Over the last days, you have repeatedly blamed us in the press, directly or indirectly. Will you at least recognize publicly that we have taken a courageous, honest and transparent stance for the safety of the pilots? I hope you will be fair enough to acknowledge that Michelin, with its seven partner teams, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Formula One Management and two other teams, did the maximum to preserve a true and safe race by proposing a very serious and pragmatic alternative.

*yawn* Michelin seems to have no idea what lawsuit and insurance mean...

[IBrake4Rainbows]

*yawn* Michelin seems to have no idea what lawsuit and insurance mean...

What they did was offer a solution which would have allowed the race to continue, even if it was at a later time in the day.

What the FIA did was not even consider the option, choosing instead to stick to the rulebook.

What the Fans did is get pissed off and I guarantee 9/10th will never watch a USGP race ever again. Nice work guys, one of the biggest markets for this thing and you go and screw it up like this.

First last years staged finish, now this, Jesus christ. F1 people are smart people who make petty mistakes.

[Matra et Alpine]

What the FIA did was not even consider the option, choosing instead to stick to the rulebook.

Interview with Mosley and he went over why each of the options wasn't viable for a RACE SERIES. They DID go over all the choices.

Shame it ruined the SPECTACLE, but I think I concur that anything else would have detracted from F1 as a RACING Formula and not just a 'show'

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Interview with Mosley and he went over why each of the options wasn't viable for a RACE SERIES. They DID go over all the choices.

Shame it ruined the SPECTACLE, but I think I concur that anything else would have detracted from F1 as a RACING Formula and not just a 'show'

I disagree here. What F1 needs to do is show it's adaptable to change and any situations thrown at it. What I saw was that Mosley may have gone over the choices, but he made the wrong one.

F1 is a Spectacle, no matter what it does. It's also the Pinnacle (Or it likes to see itself as the pinnacle) of motor Racing.

There was very little racing that day.

[Matra et Alpine]

I disagree here. What F1 needs to do is show it's adaptable to change and any situations thrown at it. What I saw was that Mosley may have gone over the choices, but he made the wrong one.

F1 is a Spectacle, no matter what it does. It's also the Pinnacle (Or it likes to see itself as the pinnacle) of motor Racing.

You can't be the PINNACLE of motorsport and then make choices that make a "spectacle".

Sorry IB4R, they're not compatible.

There was very little racing that day.

Imagine if a chicane was in and THEN the tyres were tearing up because of the extra cornering ?
Or if a "gentlemans agreement" not to exceed speed limits on the corner meant that cars aero packages were then detrimental to their success.
OR if the non-points scoreres got in the way and took out a leader
Or - the million OTHER things that are wrong with letting the RULES and safety come second to the rest of it.

It's that thinking that has neutered WRC and made rallying a VERY poor copy of it's once great sport

PS: try to listen to the Mosely interview

[IBrake4Rainbows]

You can't be the PINNACLE of motorsport and then make choices that make a "spectacle".

Sorry IB4R, they're not compatible.

How are they not? In the heyday of F1, the spectacle WAS the racing and the personalities that were in the sport.

Today the most excitement I get is from listening to the implementation of new rules.
Imagine if a chicane was in and THEN the tyres were tearing up because of the extra cornering ?

Was that even a concern? I thought the major concern was the fact that the banking and speed around turn 13 was so great it breached the limits of the tyres?

Or if a "gentlemans agreement" not to exceed speed limits on the corner meant that cars aero packages were then detrimental to their success.
OR if the non-points scoreres got in the way and took out a leader
Or - the million OTHER things that are wrong with letting the RULES and safety come second to the rest of it.

I concur, the safety should be the main priority, and it was. What I'm saying is that, given a little more time (The Grand Prix may not have needed to start at 2:00pm (although TV coverage would have been happy....)) then the safety fears might have been alleviated, and we might have had a half decent race. Why not just make the entire event point-free?

It's that thinking that has neutered WRC and made rallying a VERY poor copy of it's once great sport

PS: try to listen to the Mosely interview

I'm looking for it.

Safety was of great concern to WRC because in the era of Group B the crowds were not controlled and the cars speeds were exceeding the safe limits.

Given greater crowd control and more development time, Group B needn't of been cancelled. It's as much the Rally organisers fault as the Teams and the FIA.

F1 has a rulebook and they should stick to it. What I'm offering is a "What If" scenario if they hadn't of stuck to it.

Of course it would never have happened.

[Matra et Alpine]

I'm looking for it.

I'll try and find it tomorrow.

Safety was of great concern to WRC because in the era of Group B the crowds were not controlled and the cars speeds were exceeding the safe limits.

The crowds were secondary.
The cars were too fast for the stages. The death of Toivonen didnt' involve any crowds or spectators. jsut too fast and no time to recover

Given greater crowd control and more development time, Group B needn't of been cancelled. It's as much the Rally organisers fault as the Teams and the FIA.

rally stages coudl not cope with the speeds of the GroupB cars.
They would have had to do as they've done now -- removed all the long hard stages, added extensive pace notes and gravel/ice crews and repeat the same 'safe' stages 2-4 times per event

F1 has a rulebook and they should stick to it. What I'm offering is a "What If" scenario if they hadn't of stuck to it.

Of course it would never have happened.

Moseley's interview covered some of the "what ifs" -- it's funny because he keeps answering in allegories, so you had things like "it would be like having a team turn for a boat race with no oars and then making all the other teams race without oars"

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I'll try and find it tomorrow.

The crowds were secondary.

So those 4 or so people Killed in Corsica were Secondary? Don't tell me they weren't in the back of the FIA's mind.

The cars were too fast for the stages. The death of Toivonen didnt' involve any crowds or spectators. jsut too fast and no time to recover

Lancia were known for filling rollcages with Nitrous Oxide to help make the cars lighter. Wonder why that didn't catch on? He was an excellent driver, but the car let him down.

rally stages coudl not cope with the speeds of the GroupB cars.
They would have had to do as they've done now -- removed all the long hard stages, added extensive pace notes and gravel/ice crews and repeat the same 'safe' stages 2-4 times per event

I agree; it's litigation hell if you get this wrong nowadays. I think that the stages could have been moulded around the Group B cars.

Moseley's interview covered some of the "what ifs" -- it's funny because he keeps answering in allegories, so you had things like "it would be like having a team turn for a boat race with no oars and then making all the other teams race without oars"

Maybe thats how he sees the world

But still, it's good to see he's not the bastard people make him out to be.