Fuel efficient F1s????????

[Matra et Alpine]

Think about why currently F1 gets so much more attention than any other form of motorsport - it isn't because the cars are competative, its because it's a rich boy's playground and Bernie can bring along all his billionaire friends along.

I disagree, and I think the reason the "voice of the fans" has been SO negative F1 for the last decade is that they're fed up with Bernies rich-mans circus and want to see it be about teams and drivers and cars RACING and NOT abotu which has the best hotels etc etc.

So you've got F1 that's interesting to watch, but on the "obscure sports network" and like everything else motorsport related will be rescheduled if there is a particularly interesting tiddly-winks match on at the same time.

It was there for more years than it has been where it is now
Part of teh dropping budget is recognisign that it HAS been tailing off.
Bernies great idea of a multi-BILLION dollar TV network flopped because real fans wern't interested in that.

I think that F1 should have a way of allowing more teams into the sport that doesn't cut budgets.

Well whilst they've NOT enforced a lower budget look at how "succesful" it's been at getting new teams in ? Most cant' afford to stay so end up runnign a second rate team - ie Prost

More TV money going to teams for example.

Which is what hte accord was supposed to be all abotu except the BIG manufacturers demanded theat THEY shodul get more !! Which would only have made it HARDER for new teams to join !! Sadly EVERYOEN is playing their own agenda in this game

This way the teams can continue to be at the forefront of technology.

But if you dont' limit that "forefront" then all that happens is the big five outspend AGAIN and the little guys dont enter coz there's no way to compete.

With a complete overhaul of the rules cars could stop being nearly identical, and should also be competative, and F1 can continue to be sufficiently "glamarous".

A complete "overhaul" and HWO do you think that coudl get any agreement when even the smallets tinkering has everyoen running to their corners to protect their interests ?
The closest that came was A1GP Now THERE is an interesting and compteitive formula NOT. Or the GPMA propsoals ? Was fine if you were one of the BIG BOYS.
I dont' see the fear that GP2 and F1 aren't that different. F3000 and F1 wasn't !!! THere will still be technical differences that make them differnt budget levels and tehcnical challenges. I'm not sure why anyone woudl wna tit otherwise or imagine it so.

Having cars with GP2 chassis and low powered engines already exists anyway - its called "GP2".

Missed the point SHARED technology. So the chassis may be the same and it's diffenre aero around it --- or the aero concepts are shared and its the chassis BELOW it. Gearbox might be the same or the engine but with different heads or differnet crank or ..... the list is endless.

Why bother making F1 the same?

Same as what ? I dont' think anyone woudl seek "the same" all they seem to be suggesting is a way for GP2 teams to have a guarnateed move up based on performance. If you read the proposal they even suggest teh F1 administration will put 10s of milliosn of euros into the teams coming up !!
I think you're worryign abotu the boogieman in teh cupboard, When the light is turned on it's not scary

True, the racing is more interesting, but coverage is shit, quite frankly.

30 mins on a Saturday afternoon to cover a whole w/e racing - because it doesn't have the allure of big money to it.

Will be interestgin to see if the new qualifying helps re-invigorate. Frankly I've not watched a quali session since they stopped the free-for-all days when there was SOME excitement during the whole 60 mins !!!

All of Max's current proposals could be implemented by just axing F1 and renaming GP2.

no they couldn't and you seem to be making the assumption that it is the CAR that moves up and down -- it's the TEAM. Sheep - baaa -baaa

Please try to use the [ quote ] as it's too difficult respondin gto yoru valid points as they are out of context

[Coventrysucks]

you seem to be making the assumption that it is the CAR that moves up and down -- it's the TEAM. Sheep - baaa -baaa

So why would I say that the team would need to develop an F1 car and GP2 car in parallel if they didn't know which formula they'd be in next season?

I understand the implications of the promotion/ relegation system, as you describe, I just can't be arsed to comment on it any further.

I think it is a good idea in theory; it will never work in practice.

You say yourself how difficult the teams already are; you think that they'd agree to be demoted from F1 without a massive row?

[Matra et Alpine]

So why would I say that the team would need to develop an F1 car and GP2 car in parallel if they didn't know which formula they'd be in next season?

Go bvakc to my football analogy.
If a team doesn't know if it's in the Premier or First then it has some difficult decisions to make in terms of sponsors, team members, salaries, team shape and ticket prices ! Frankly if a team can't decide if the next year it is better in one or the other then it is destined for third division very quickly.
Business ois full of caompnies who chose to join teh big boys or stay in a niche. A caompnay that can't make it's mind up and set a stregey to achieve it will go bust.
Same for a GP2/F1 team. If you commit the resources to WIN GP2 with a plan to enter F1 then you can succeed. If they pussy-foot around not knowning AS A TEAM what they want then yep, they'll go up and come down stragiht away and likely next season NOT be in GP2 either. That's called "BAD TEAM MANAGEMENT"
As for the car, already made it clear I thought ... one car is only the embodiment of the skills and abilities of a team. They can use a VAST majority of that same experience to produce a different car. Especially if they are innovating in suspension or aero

I understand the implications of the promotion/ relegation system, as you describe, I just can't be arsed to comment on it any further.

Well the above comment suggested you didn't as you are still thinking inonly one dimension.

I think it is a good idea in theory; it will never work in practice.

Funny, it works exceptionally well in rallying and the lower forms of motor sport .... and in soccer ..... and in rugby .... and in business ..... and in almsot EVERY part of life. F1 was the ODD one with a cartel only permitting who they wanted into the "club" !!!

You say yourself how difficult the teams already are; you think that they'd agree to be demoted from F1 without a massive row?

If those are hte rules then they can't complain!
Were tyou too young to have followed the brew-ha when teh Premier League was formed ? Much of the same identification of negatives was raised then adn teams DID complain about going down -- but the results proved they weren't capable of staying up, you cant' hide from that. So if one of teh Red Bull teams goes down next season ? So what ? If they were last in all the races and were mobile chicanes then thank YOU The shock woudl be if someoen like Williams ended up there..... well hate to point it out but greater names than Williams have fallen from grace and from motorsport !!!!!! When the time has come to go, it's time to go. At least this way teams lead by peopel who may have the skills of a Chapman/McLaren/Brabham/Stewart/Todt will have proven their teams avbility in GP2 and be ENTITLED to join the big boys.

Can't see how it can be seen bad APART from trying to protect the large as they become mediocre

[Coventrysucks]

If those are hte rules then they can't complain!

Then they can't complain if they just change the current rules to make F1 more competative.

I'm not thinking "one dimensionally" I just don't have the time to make a full debate of it.

IMO, this is a poorly thought out plan, with no real examination of pesky things like the details of how it would actually work.

It seems like they are risking doing a lot of potential damage to both F1 and GP2 if it goes tits up, for something that could easily be achieved anyway.

If GP2 teams want to be in F1, F1 should give them some money.

Presumably if a team was to be "promoted" it would get funding anyway.

Also if they wanted to increase the number of teams in F1, why the hell would they be getting rid of two of them each season?

[henk4]

Fuel efficiency can be easily forced by introducing a maximum amount of fuel that can be used during a race. This is actually nothing new, as the turbo cars where already under such a regulation. If the total amount of fuel that can be burnt will be graduallly lowered to say 50-75 litre per 300 km race, that might be a way to go. (And in come the mazout burners )

[MrKipling]

I don't see that there would be a problem with teams moving up and down in relegation/promotion affair. The only people who will move around are the smaller 'privateer' teams in the lower reaches - teams like Williams, Ferrari, McLaren wn't go anywhere. You don't often see Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal worrying about relegation!

The only problem I can see is for 'waverers'. What happens when you have a team on the cusp of F1 (through winning GP2), but who clearly don't have what it takes to get into F1 properly? They'll go bust having to swap between two formulas!

[Matra et Alpine]

They'll go bust having to swap between two formulas!

If they copy what some teamd did in football wheeere they paid VAST salaries to get key players to try to stay in Premiere ---- then I agree.
The well managed teams with vision and planning and capability won't

[Matra et Alpine]

All the rubbish about the Revetec has been moved to the old thread on it so the mental masturbations dont' take us too far away from F1 http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...hlight=revetec
The Revetec only got mentioned here as there was confusion with the Powertec. NOBODY thinks a Revetec could be an F1 engine --- or do they ???