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Thread: Greenpeace vs SUVs

  1. #1
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    Greenpeace vs SUVs

    Seen this yet guys?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsM9F...eenpeace%20SUV

    The e.mail I wrote to Greenpeace in response.

    Hello,

    I very rarely feel compelled to write letters based upon what I see 'in the media', but the film you have made about City Gas Guzzlers really got me rather angry.

    Before I go on to the main body of this complaint, I'd like to let you know that I did find the advert amusing, and in principal at least, I can't stand seeing SUVs on Britain's town roads.

    However, what I fail to understand is what you are trying to achieve with this film? Are you hoping that people will see it and start abusing their SUV driving colleagues in such an underhand way? Probably not - I should think it was just found funny.

    Seriously though, what I do have a problem with is the utterly brainless nature of the whole campaign:

    You give statistics like 'SUVs use around 300% more fuel than an efficient family car' which is basically meaningless to anyone who understands how cars work, but sounds shocking to Joe Public;

    You make no mention of the fact that the Lupo diesel uses less fuel than the Prius;

    You fail to mention the bucket-loads of cash being spent by manufacturers to improve vehicle emmisions (particle filters, catalytic convertors, fuel injection, computerised engine management.. the list goes on and on);

    And, MOST importantly of all: there's no explanation of what makes a gas-guzzler a gas guzzler - you seem to just lump any large car into that category, depite the fact that the DIESEL 4x4 you use in your advert has four cylinders and is really no worse than an old estate car.

    Surely the best approach to getting SUVs off the road is to get the manufactuers and car fans (or motoring journalists like myself) on your side... not going to happen when you have the audacity to let your freelancing blogger call Geoff Upex a wanker! He's a well-respected, nice bloke who's doing his job.... comments like that will do you no favours.

    What you also have to remember is that SUVs (like MPVs and mini-SUVs before them) are a fashion fad that will go away before we even realise it... even Porsche are already planning the demise of the Cayenne to make way for their four-door Panamera... it can't be too long before the celeb Prius driving catches on? Can it? Again, your efforts would be much better focussed on things that really make a difference... if you still want to abuse car owners (we're such an easy target) why not make 2CV and Beetle drivers your focus of hate? These guys don't have to pay Tax for their vast C02 emmisions thanks to them being 'Classic' cars; they have big, sticky-outty chrome bumpers for snapping children's ankles; are totally unsafe for the occupant and are utterly filthy cars for emmisions and efficiency.

    Why not fully turn your attention away from cars and cast your eyes skyward, you'll find a world utterly rife with truly brainless pollution. A couple of examples for you....

    Why do companies still fly employees to other countries for meetings when they can, very easily and cheaply, set up a video conference?

    Why do people take three holidays abroad in a single year? Devon is quite nice... so is the Lake District... why aren't you on their case and promoting the green peace (see what I did there?!) of a holiday in Britain's rolling countryside?

    Where are the taxes for airlines flying old planes with no scrubbers?

    Again.. the list goes on and on.

    Right, time for another properly serious bit... you need to go on a serious fact finding mission on your website and STOP this half-truth written as fact thing you appear to be obssesed with. A good example me and a mate ('mate' has a masters in bio-mechanical engineering and material science) found, which has nothing to do with the cars bit but it still pissed me off:

    "Nuclear containers are highly vulnerable to attack from an armour piercing round"

    What it doesn't mention is that the only armour piercing round they're vulnerable to is fired from a Chieftain tank and is 100mm across. I appreciate that the addition of those few words somewhat diminishes the impact of the statement, but when you actually have people leaving caps off Nuclear Transporters, do you really have to resort to Blair/Bush half-truth tactics?

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...046104,00.html

    Right, that's going to be the end of my 'rant', although I hope that's not how it came across.

    I used to have a lot of respect for Greenpeace, but you're really starting to stray desperately near to tactics used by the governments you so vehmently try to bring to account - the writing on your website looks a lot like propoganda... just present the facts, and trust that fully present and correct information will be able to swing it for you.

    Surely if the evidence is that conclusive you don't need hyperbole?

    Kindest regards,

    Pete W*******h
    Last edited by MrKipling; 07-26-2006 at 08:40 AM.
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  2. #2
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    some good points there, but why draw Greenpeace' attention to old cars? Thsi is comparable to your earlier rant about the square km in the City of London which was considered representative for the whole nation

    Edit: The Lupo diesel is no longer in production. It was considered too expensive
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  3. #3
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    $10 they don't read past the first 2 paragraphs.

    Not that it wasn't well written, just I doubt they care what anyone who doesn't share the same greenie agenda as them thinks, hence their fouls made apparent by your email.
    He came dancing across the water
    With his galleons and guns
    Looking for the new world
    In that palace in the sun
    On the shore lay Montezuma
    With his cocoa leaves and pearls

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by my porsche

    Not that it wasn't well written, just I doubt they care what anyone who doesn't share the same greenie agenda as them thinks, hence their fouls made apparent by your email.
    I disagree. They DO care about what people who don't share their agenda think. The purpose of their public rhetoric is to try and grab the attention of the people who don't already share their opinions and try and change their viewpoint. What Mr K. is objecting to is the fact that the nature of their publications and website uses hyperbole and sensationalist half-truths to try and effect this change in people's opinion on the matters at hand.

    I don't think the letter will do a damn thing to change the way GP go about their campaigning though. Greenpeace are effectively a political lobby group, and as we all know Western politics is driven by the media. It is simply the nature of political organisations that they will "spin" their agenda in the media in whatever way will gain the most attention and support for their cause. Stark sensationalism will always win out in the battle for media attention against quiet, well-reasoned presentation of the facts. Sad as it is to say, to think otherwise is to be a fantasist.

    BTW, before anyone says anything I'm not against Greenpeace in any way. In fact I'm a fully paid up member. Doesn't mean I have to like everything they do though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr K
    even Porsche are already planning the demise of the Cayenne to make way for their four-door Panamera
    Is this true? I can't see Porsche wanting to ditch the Cayenne while it is still en vogue and a raging sales success. I've not heard any rumours of them ditching it.
    uәʞoɹq spɹɐoqʎәʞ ʎɯ

  5. #5
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    ^^ Yep, absolutely true - they reckon SUVs will be dead in less than three years (so says the source).

    I'm sure it won't make an iota of difference to their campaigning and rhetoric but, if they get a technical section on their website because of that letter I'll be happy.

    As for 'drawing attention to older cars', i was just trying to subtly make the point that they're not in that strong a position to judge people's car choices given the number of Greenpeace stickers you see on obscenely inefficient vehicles.
    Last edited by MrKipling; 07-26-2006 at 10:18 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKipling
    As for 'drawing attention to older cars', i was just trying to subtly make the point that they're not in that strong a position to judge people's car choices given the number of Greenpeace stickers you see on obscenely inefficient vehicles.

    would you claim that a 2CV is less efficient than a Cayenne? Or a BMW 5-series? And yes, I am also a padi member, and even work for them on an assignment relating to the scrapping of ships in India. If you have seen pictures form the beaches there, you will understand.
    Last edited by henk4; 07-26-2006 at 10:48 AM.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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    Very well done letter/email. Good points too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4
    would you claim that a 2CV is less efficient than a Cayenne?
    Absolutely. In the most pragmatic way, you couldn't argue against it. It's faster and it gets much more energy from a given amount of fuel - the two most important measures of 'a method of transport's efficiency'.

    Also, from a point of view of 'immediately offensive' pollution they're much worse in terms of smell and sound, although they obviously have a certain charm, they are not clean cars in that respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by henk4
    If you have seen pictures form the beaches there, you will understand.
    I would never criticise what Greenpeace stand for, I just wish they would take themselves a level above the people they're trying to bring to account and use facts in an honest fashion. Like that armour-piercing round example in my email, I looked into that and the shell is a depleted uranium monster called the 'Tactical M900'.

    It would be so easy to make the point for SUVs at least, without resorting to what ends up coming across as petty bickering.
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  9. #9
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    it was good... hope they read it all!

    and i agree that greenpeace is using tactics to get people to take their side like the government does.

    they should just use the facts and compare them... instead of making their own conclusions and pushing them on the public.
    The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
    -Rita Mae Brown-

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equinox
    they should just use the facts and compare them... instead of making their own conclusions and pushing them on the public.
    here they do not differ in any way from the automotive industry
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKipling
    Absolutely. In the most pragmatic way, you couldn't argue against it. It's faster and it gets much more energy from a given amount of fuel - the two most important measures of 'a method of transport's efficiency'.
    that is a funny reasoning, as all the enrgy that is generated additionally (and more) is needed to propel the Cayenne, and is not available for carrying more payload.

    My measure of efficiency would be that with a given amount of fuel, say 5 litre, the 2CV woould bring me 70 kms away, while the the Cayenne would probably stop after 35-40....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  12. #12
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    and BTW, the Landcruiser diesel is 4.1 litre V6 and not a 4 pot.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKipling
    number of Greenpeace stickers you see on obscenely inefficient vehicles.
    I want to buy a Hummer H1 and stick a few green peace stickers on it just for fun and drive around and see how many angry prius drivers I can get behind me.
    He came dancing across the water
    With his galleons and guns
    Looking for the new world
    In that palace in the sun
    On the shore lay Montezuma
    With his cocoa leaves and pearls

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by my porsche
    I want to buy a Hummer H1 and stick a few green peace stickers on it just for fun and drive around and see how many angry prius drivers I can get behind me.
    back to your old asshole habits?
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  15. #15
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    that is a good idea... wasn't it members of greenpeace who vandalized a Hummer dealership somewhere in California a year or two ago.
    The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of your three best friends. If they're okay, then it's you.
    -Rita Mae Brown-

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