multiple turbo diesel madness

[Ferrer]

I remember last year you promised that you have a ride in a modern BMW diesel...did you manage that? If not, do it first and then talk about the three things you mention there.

I didn't, and admiteddly my short diesel experience is limited to a rather awful Audi A6 2.5 TDI Quattro. That had an awful sound and no low range punch.

However no that long ago I had the opportunity to drive shortly one of the new BMW 330i. Now I know it is seriously ugly, but what a car. The engine was sweet, willing to rev and good sounding. The diesel should be very good indeed to beat it.

I reckon that for people that do very high mileages the diesel is a better option, but I think that for pleasure of driving pushing a good petrol engine to the redline it's still better than pushing a diesel engine, even if the diesel is better performing and more frugal.

Of course that's just my opinion. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but at least for now I wouldn't be buying a diesel car over the equivalent petrol, alotugh that doesn't mean that if I tested it I could end liking it. Somehow I doubt it, though.

[henk4]

.

However no that long ago I had the opportunity to drive shortly one of the new BMW 330i. Now I know it is seriously ugly, but what a car. The engine was sweet, willing to rev and good sounding. The diesel should be very good indeed to beat it.

Car and Driver (an American Magazine ) recently compared the 330i with the 330d, and the latter came out on top....

[jediali]

I didn't, and admiteddly my short diesel experience is limited to a rather awful Audi A6 2.5 TDI Quattro. That had an awful sound and no low range punch.

However no that long ago I had the opportunity to drive shortly one of the new BMW 330i. Now I know it is seriously ugly, but what a car. The engine was sweet, willing to rev and good sounding. The diesel should be very good indeed to beat it.

I reckon that for people that do very high mileages the diesel is a better option, but I think that for pleasure of driving pushing a good petrol engine to the redline it's still better than pushing a diesel engine, even if the diesel is better performing and more frugal.

Of course that's just my opinion. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but at least for now I wouldn't be buying a diesel car over the equivalent petrol, alotugh that doesn't mean that if I tested it I could end liking it. Somehow I doubt it, though.

im with you on this. furthermore engines like the one in the RS4, a high revving involving V8 with direct injection to (slightly) improve fuel consumption look great on paper for your reasons. apparently the 272hp 535d was willing to rev to 5000rpm but i dont know more than that.

[Ferrer]

Car and Driver (an American Magazine ) recently compared the 330i with the 330d, and the latter came out on top....

They must have hit their head with something while writing the article...

[henk4]

im with you on this. furthermore engines like the one in the RS4, a high revving involving V8 with direct injection to (slightly) improve fuel consumption look great on paper for your reasons. apparently the 272hp 535d was willing to rev to 5000rpm but i dont know more than that.

this an effort to falsify things a little. The useful power in a diesel starts at around 1500 revs... and if you rev it to 4500 you have 3000 revs available.
A petrol engine (if you are lucky will start to deliver around 3000 and may rev to 6500 or 7000) so you have only 500-1000 more. And the nice thing is that you don't need to rev a diesel hard as your next upwards gear will fall nicely in the full torque area....
And to have full torque available at motorway cruising speeds in top gear also reduces the need to downshift....

[henk4]

They must have hit their head with something while writing the article...

that is a comeback below your normal standards....

[jediali]

ok ok, but an VW FSI equipped engine has max torque at around 2000rpm like a diesel. it isnt as much as a diesel however. i guess you have read about bmw's clever directly injected petrol engines that produce max torque at 1300rpm too. im not arguing just saying that petrol technologies are doing their bit too.

[Ferrer]

that is a comeback below your normal standards....

Don't be so hard on me. I can also make (bad) jokes...

To be abck on topic, I understand the diesel engines are very competent and they do their job very well. They are fast and frugal, and they have improved dramatically for the last 20 years. We all agree on this.

However I like to drive, and in my opinion, and I stress that it's only my opinion, I think that a good (and I think that it's important because a bad petrol engine can be awful) petrol engine is preferable when you want to just drive in a twisty country road.

Of course the diesel engine have also very good attributes, like fuel consumption, good torque ratings, less CO2 emissions and the likes, but you've also got to reckon that those last few months some very good petrol engine have been launched to the market. Some examples are the previously mentioned 1.4 TSI or the 1.6-litre turbo from PSA-BMW.

What I want to say that it all depends in what you search in a car, because both "systems" have their advantages and disadvantages. I understand perfectly fine why you are very happy with your diesel, and you should too why I am very happy with my petrol.

[henk4]

ok ok, but an VW FSI equipped engine has max torque at around 2000rpm like a diesel. it isnt as much as a diesel however. i guess you have read about bmw's clever directly injected petrol engines that produce max torque at 1300rpm too. im not arguing just saying that petrol technologies are doing their bit too.

BMW has a sequential turbo petrol engine too...

[mikelzapi3]

In my opinion is about your taste, both modern diesels and petrol engines are very good.
However, I would say that with the same amount of HP the diesel cars pulls harder in "normal" conditions. Let me explain this a bit, if you race both cars the petrol car would win, but in street driving you can't reviing the petrol car like madman (well you can do, but sane people don't do that, and all the people and the police will notice that), so when you want drive fast, pushing the accelerator hard but without slipng the clutch (when you do a getaway), the diesel power is awesome. I have tried a 318is with 140 HP and A3 with 130 HP, and when you accelerate from 20 kmh to 160 kmh the A3 sensation of pulling is harder, and i would say it is quicker, the peak power of the BMW is greater, but the A3 maintais its 130 in a broader rev range, so you actually have more power. However, when racing , you change gears very often, with perhaps closer ratios to exploit the narrow peaky band of petrol engines.

The last sentence seems not to be valid for the newest TSI and in general, turbo petrol engines, which are built to overcome this narrow band, a give us more power all the revs up.

[mikelzapi3]

I've forgoten, I have a friend who works at a skoda delaer as a mechanic, he is a old school mechanic, and he loves petrol engines, but he admits that when they go to test cars (near the dealer is a long slop with a very open bend) to this long slope when what matters is only power, the same range diesel skodas wins the petrol ones....and he is in love with the fabia RS

[jediali]

on paper: power = capacity x rpm x torque

note that torque is more to do with mean effective pressure (mep)

[NSXType-R]

That BMW seems to have an M5 kit on it. Very cool. Diesels are great. It's too bad they aren't popular here.

[ruim20]

the 325d comes with a 3 litre inline 6, producing 197 bhp from a single turbo. The 335D has the same engine producing 272 bhp with two turbos. In the new X3/X5 the engine is further improved to 286 BHP, while Hamann has just launched a 350 BHP version.

So... why would anyone buy it instead of the 220bhp 330d with almost the same
l/100km?

[Ferrer]

So... why would anyone buy it instead of the 220bhp 330d with almost the same
l/100km?

Becuase of the price difference?