V8 Supercars: Round 13 Phillip Island, Caterpillar Finale

[adrenaline]

I dont care what u dumbass Holden loving ****wits have to say. HRT-HSV Dealer team collaborated against CL. Obvious as day. IF YOU BELIEVE OTHER THAN THAT THEN YOU ARE A ****ING MORON.
Kelly's engineer was HEARD saying win it or bin it we dont need the car anymore.... FFS, if thats not enough for you, then I dunno. Cold brakes, cold tyres, whatever, its the same for em all. That little cunt Kelly is a cheat. He'll get his.
Good to see that the walkinshaw empires return has brought back with it its dubious tactics and views of sportsmanship.
V8SCS can get ****ed if it lets Kelly stay champ.

Thank God someone here has a brain! It's so simple.

[SlickHolden]

Rick past CL in race 2, Then was very unlucky too have had trouble in the pits. He should have been infront of him in race 2 blocking him himself anyway.

But in race 3 it seemed rick had the speed straight away on CL. He had early speed on him in race 2 also before the pits, He was able too pull away from CL before the pit stop went bad.

I think it's got too be accepted that holden looks out for there own even when there not the same team. And ford in Ambrose's case didn't.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Yeah lets hope Peter Wollerman has the 'stones' as u put it, to make the right call and take Ricks points off him for the last race.

Why? Why not go back throught the whole season and do that? He got a drive through as the rules state for doing it, and still won the race.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Thank God someone here has a brain! It's so simple.

Why didn't 888 say that Lowndes? They've got more than enough time to fix their car before next year. HSVDT just obviously wanted it more.

[adrenaline]

Rick past CL in race 2, Then was very unlucky too have had trouble in the pits. He should have been infront of him in race 2 blocking him himself anyway.

Rick didn't get past Craig using car speed, Craig made an error.

But in race 3 it seemed rick had the speed straight away on CL. He had early speed on him in race 2 also before the pits, He was able too pull away from CL before the pit stop went bad.

In race two Craig was held up by Garth. As soon as Garth was taken out of the picture, Craig trashed Rick.

I think it's got too be accepted that holden looks out for there own even when there not the same team. And ford in Ambrose's case didn't.

Holden went a few steps further than looking out for their own. They cheated.

[adrenaline]

Why didn't 888 say that Lowndes? They've got more than enough time to fix their car before next year. HSVDT just obviously wanted it more.

888 said that, and more. They are putting in a formal protest. Sure they can fix the car, but they can't steal back their championship. And if tagging your opponent means you wanted it more, than I guess they did.

[SlickHolden]

Thanks. I love you too.

love is in the air.

[adrenaline]

The ABC sums up the penatly pretty well:

Kelly was given a drive-through penalty for his part in the accident but that was no consolation for Lowndes, who limped home in second-last position after having to pit several times.

There's no point arguing about this until we see how the protest turns out.

[fpv_gtho]

Guys please keep any profanity aimed away from each other.

[SlickHolden]

Rick didn't get past Craig using car speed, Craig made an error.

It's pressue he was giving it too him at that stage.

In race two Craig was held up by Garth. As soon as Garth was taken out of the picture, Craig trashed Rick.

He was infront of kelly because if a problem in the pits.

Holden went a few steps further than looking out for their own. They cheated.

Thats going a little overboard dont you think?
Everyone had a laugh at ingall knocking skaife into the wall at Eastern creek many years ago, And he was deffended for it by the blue army. They had a laugh and still do about it.. Now no-one is laughing.

[motorsportnerd]

Exactly as I thought - the viewpoint on this is going exactly down Ford/Holden biased lines. Each person is blaming the driver who drives for the manufacturer they don't support. Did see that coming...

Now, while I'm disappointed that Craig Lowndes didn't win the championship, this whole final round has raised some serious questions.

1st. Is this a team or an individual sport? If it is a team sport, then Skaife in race 1 and Tander in race 2 did exactly the right thing. They held up Lowndes to give their team-mate a shot at him. This is how motor racing has been conducted for decades - it has been a team sport, regardless of catagory. Of course, other Ford drivers - like Bright or Winterbottom didn't exactly help Lowndes. Maybe they should have.
It seems that the officials have decided that its isn't a team sport and thus Skaife and Tander received the appropriate penalties. However, I'll bet anything that if Whincup had been up near the front and in position to do so - he would've run interference on Rick Kelly's race. Did anyone notice that when Whincup got out of shape in the first lap of the first race, in order to avoid tagging Craig Lowndes, he swerved to the right and took a Holden driver with him? He was penalised, perhaps a bit surprisingly, since it didn't look deliberate. However, since it was his team-mate he would've taken out and chose to put lock on it to avoid that - it can be argued he deliberately took out another driver instead. That's how race control must have seen it too. Normally, Whincup would've gone left, not right, in correcting that mistake.

2. Blocking. Why is this such an issue? The rules certainly need to be clarified. The name of the game in motor racing is to win. It is up to the driver of the second car to get past the driver of the first car. Up until recently, the driver of the first car was able to place his car wherever he liked on track to keep the second driver behind. I remember John Bowe doing exactly this to Tony Longhurst in an Australian Touring Car race back in the Sierra/BMW days - Bowe would've been penalised for blocking today, but back then it was simply defending his line. It was up to Tony to get past - and trust me he tried all sorts of unusual lines to do so.
Of course the rules now say that you can defend your line once up until the last couple of laps and on a second occasion that its called blocking. But in the last two laps (or is it 3 laps or 5 laps???) the lead driver is allowed to defend as he sees fit.
So, it depends on your view of blocking as to whether Skaife and Tander should've been penalised. As Crompton said, it is the natural instinct of the driver to do exactly that - defend his line.

This brings me to the Lowndes-Kelly incident. Although it seems hypocritical on Craig Lowndes behalf to block Kelly - that was his natural instinct, defend the line. Also, Lowndes was allowed to defend once, and this was the first time. I got the feeling that Rick Kelly wasn't going to have any of it and in a split second did a Schuey and took Lowndes out. Probably figured he'd get a drive-through but the Lowndes would come off worst - which is what happened. That is, they were tied, there was nothing to lose and everything to gain.
We can argue back and forwards the rights and wrongs of this. To me - Lowndes was definitely blocking Rick. But, it was the first time. And, to me, it looked like Rick wasn't having a bar of it. And you can argue that it was an attempted overtaking move gone wrong/brake fade/Lowndes braked too early, whatever excuse you like, but put simply - Rick tagged Lowndes and won the championship in a hollow manner.
The end result is this - it doesn't matter which of the two drivers won the championship - that incident meant that the championship win was never going to be considered as truly deserved, whichever of the two drivers got it. Its the Ford fans like myself crying foul now, but if Lowndes had won the Holden fans would be shouting about blocking and hypocrisy and saying Lowndes didn't deserve it. Further, should Lowndes now be awarded the championship now via the protest that Triple 8 has lodged, it will be every bit as sour and undeserved victory as the one Rick now enjoys.
Rick better enjoy the champagne and get horribly drunk tonight - because in the cold, harsh light of next week and next year, only the most devote of Holden fans will think he was a truly deserving victor.

To my mind - and despite the fact that I was supporting Lowndes - the true winner of this years championship should've been Garth Tander.

[SlickHolden]

Exactly as I thought - the viewpoint on this is going exactly down Ford/Holden biased lines. Each person is blaming the driver who drives for the manufacturer they don't support. Did see that coming...

Now, while I'm disappointed that Craig Lowndes didn't win the championship, this whole final round has raised some serious questions.

1st. Is this a team or an individual sport? If it is a team sport, then Skaife in race 1 and Tander in race 2 did exactly the right thing. They held up Lowndes to give their team-mate a shot at him. This is how motor racing has been conducted for decades - it has been a team sport, regardless of catagory. Of course, other Ford drivers - like Bright or Winterbottom didn't exactly help Lowndes. Maybe they should have.
It seems that the officials have decided that its isn't a team sport and thus Skaife and Tander received the appropriate penalties. However, I'll bet anything that if Whincup had been up near the front and in position to do so - he would've run interference on Rick Kelly's race. Did anyone notice that when Whincup got out of shape in the first lap of the first race, in order to avoid tagging Craig Lowndes, he swerved to the right and took a Holden driver with him? He was penalised, perhaps a bit surprisingly, since it didn't look deliberate. However, since it was his team-mate he would've taken out and chose to put lock on it to avoid that - it can be argued he deliberately took out another driver instead. That's how race control must have seen it too. Normally, Whincup would've gone left, not right, in correcting that mistake.

2. Blocking. Why is this such an issue? The rules certainly need to be clarified. The name of the game in motor racing is to win. It is up to the driver of the second car to get past the driver of the first car. Up until recently, the driver of the first car was able to place his car wherever he liked on track to keep the second driver behind. I remember John Bowe doing exactly this to Tony Longhurst in an Australian Touring Car race back in the Sierra/BMW days - Bowe would've been penalised for blocking today, but back then it was simply defending his line. It was up to Tony to get past - and trust me he tried all sorts of unusual lines to do so.
Of course the rules now say that you can defend your line once up until the last couple of laps and on a second occasion that its called blocking. But in the last two laps (or is it 3 laps or 5 laps???) the lead driver is allowed to defend as he sees fit.
So, it depends on your view of blocking as to whether Skaife and Tander should've been penalised. As Crompton said, it is the natural instinct of the driver to do exactly that - defend his line.

This brings me to the Lowndes-Kelly incident. Although it seems hypocritical on Craig Lowndes behalf to block Kelly - that was his natural instinct, defend the line. Also, Lowndes was allowed to defend once, and this was the first time. I got the feeling that Rick Kelly wasn't going to have any of it and in a split second did a Schuey and took Lowndes out. Probably figured he'd get a drive-through but the Lowndes would come off worst - which is what happened. That is, they were tied, there was nothing to lose and everything to gain.
We can argue back and forwards the rights and wrongs of this. To me - Lowndes was definitely blocking Rick. But, it was the first time. And, to me, it looked like Rick wasn't having a bar of it. And you can argue that it was an attempted overtaking move gone wrong/brake fade/Lowndes braked too early, whatever excuse you like, but put simply - Rick tagged Lowndes and won the championship in a hollow manner.
The end result is this - it doesn't matter which of the two drivers won the championship - that incident meant that the championship win was never going to be considered as truly deserved, whichever of the two drivers got it. Its the Ford fans like myself crying foul now, but if Lowndes had won the Holden fans would be shouting about blocking and hypocrisy and saying Lowndes didn't deserve it. Further, should Lowndes now be awarded the championship now via the protest that Triple 8 has lodged, it will be every bit as sour and undeserved victory as the one Rick now enjoys.
Rick better enjoy the champagne and get horribly drunk tonight - because in the cold, harsh light of next week and next year, only the most devote of Holden fans will think he was a truly deserving victor.

To my mind - and despite the fact that I was supporting Lowndes - the true winner of this years championship should've been Garth Tander.

Good old Garth

[Daz27]

love is in the air.

I have to admit, I'm smitten too....

[Daz27]

Ummm, had a shower and cooled down a bit.. Its 38 degrees here...
Rick better watch out next year, Im tippen hes going to have a shitload of Vodafone red coloured paint plastered on that #1 on his door at Adelaide....

[adrenaline]

It's pressue he was giving it too him at that stage.

True, but it still stands that Kelly didn't get by him using car speed.

He was infront of kelly because if a problem in the pits.

I guess the pit crew was feeling the pressure

Thats going a little overboard dont you think?
Everyone had a laugh at ingall knocking skaife into the wall at Eastern creek many years ago, And he was deffended for it by the blue army. They had a laugh and still do about it.. Now no-one is laughing.

I don't think it is, he should have let Craig past. In any other race he would have. Also, he let Rick go by, but not Craig.

I agree with motorsportnerd that Tander deserved it. Although when it comes to being Blue or Red biased, I'm on the blue team, but I am not biased. If it happened the other way around, I would be ashamed of Lowndes. But it didn't. I'm just heated because in every race, Lowndes was not only blocked, but purposely held up. It brings the sport down.

Further, should Lowndes now be awarded the championship now via the protest that Triple 8 has lodged, it will be every bit as sour and undeserved victory as the one Rick now enjoys.

My thoughts exactly. Although I disagree with your teams judgement. The other Holden boys should have let Rick and Craig have a fair fight, just as the Ford boys all did. I guess you get real desperate after a three year draught. Also, I'm fine with blocking here and there, but not slowing down and blocking. Tander/ Skaife didn't just block, they slowed down. If they were going race pace then I would be fine about it.