Clivey's Corsa

[Clivey]

Based on 800 miles in teh RX, it's that they are acting at the same time, so the normal input to correct from teh driver ends up amplifying the input the traction control is putting in. Has taken a while to get used to it, but I'm now confortable when and how to react with the traction control on and off

Admit it, you're just not fast enough!

That's another reason why I like TVRs. There are no computers ruining the driving experience and leaving them out saves weight - which is evident in a 0-100-0 time of 12 secs for your average Sagaris / Tuscan S (weighing in at around 1,100kgs). Besides, all the cars with TCS / ESP systems I've driven react too late, I've already made the correction. Are you saying that the RX's system has a lightning quick response time? Are you driving an F1 car for the road?

How else does the RX differ from a conventionally engined coupe to drive? I thought during the first 1,000 miles of a car's life you're supposed to run it in, does that not apply to rotaries?

Talking to guys in the clubs, the RX-7 got a bad rep that was undeserved towards the end and now amplified by the numerous forced induction being added !!!
The RX-8 has an additional oil injector under control of the ECU. So when pushing it hard it puts a squirt in to keep the tips lubricated. Been out on drives with guys with RX8s with 50K miles on teh clock and it can push as hard as my new one

I thought the typical non-modified RX-7 got to around 60k miles before it needed a rebuild? I'm not critisising as the type of car I'm after has been known to need a rebuild after as little as 15k miles.

Ah well, I suppose that's the price to pay for THOSE looks and the AJP6 sound.

[Matra et Alpine]

Admit it, you're just not fast enough!

Well I didn't lose control
I was able to detect the DSC operation and the weight transfer enough to adjust my inputs. So I'm probably faster than mere mortals
[qu9ote]That's another reason why I like TVRs[/quote]
Having been in and shared track with Cerberas and Chimaeras then it makes them fun but not as fast. You are really on the edge in every corner testing when to apply power. Great on track , but a real PIA on the road for 10,000 miles a year

Besides, all the cars with TCS / ESP systems I've driven react too late, I've already made the correction. Are you saying that the RX's system has a lightning quick response time? Are you driving an F1 car for the road?

As I had already said, it is reacting as quickly.
The F1 comment is a little silly as this is oen area where the technology easily transfers and was widely present in road cars before F1
The days when driver better than electronics are getting fewer and fewer. Todays more intelligent ABS is seldom exceeded by a driver.
I've given input on the car I was driving.
You're clearly so experienced that I'm wrong

How else does the RX differ from a conventionally engined coupe to drive? I thought during the first 1,000 miles of a car's life you're supposed to run it in, does that not apply to rotaries?

Seldom applies to any car these days, tolerances and oils are much better, just don't over-rev them.
The main thing is to not have same revs over periods of time and Mazda explicitly mention this. Also, there is a coating on the chambers which "bed in" the tips and so it does benefit from a little "enthusiasm". With less moving parts then less to break-in

I thought the typical non-modified RX-7 got to around 60k miles before it needed a rebuild? I'm not critisising as the type of car I'm after has been known to need a rebuild after as little as 15k miles.

Well it IS a sports car, so don't go looking for 120K
Many get there as long as properly maintained - the 20B really needed regular good quality oil changes.
Did find one guy with 400,000kms on a fully maintaing - tho' he had replaced the rotor tips twice ( not as easy a job as it sounds by all accounts )

Ah well, I suppose that's the price to pay for THOSE looks and the AJP6 sound.

The only price is the fuel consumption

[jediali]

Many people say their TVR i6 is very unreliable and quite often this is down to their lack of experience maintaing a dry-sump oil system. As for TVR's better without traction control i suppose the latest sagaris has an exclent chassis it isnt as forgiving as say an RX-8 and therefore makes it a better car to have abs etc etc (get it). TVRs lack of TC is a lot to do with its image. Perhaps if TVR didnt have such a good image and slightly worse handling it would be no better than an srt-10 - "Its fine and well having no traction control, but it ought to have some finesse to the suspension" rough quote from our beloved JC.

Is still think TVRs are a rewarding purchase, You just need to understand what your buying. On a side note, in the tuscan interior there is a little sweety sized hole in the dash, you can put something in it, revolve it and your object disapears...where does it go...onto the road i guess!

[Matra et Alpine]

Many people say their TVR i6 is very unreliable and quite often this is down to their lack of experience maintaing a dry-sump oil system.

How many you been in/around ?
They do have a reason for the rep
At one time almost every contractor I was employing was driving a TVR.

As for TVR's better without traction control i suppose the latest sagaris has an exclent chassis it isnt as forgiving as say an RX-8 and therefore makes it a better car to have abs etc etc (get it).

confused ? are you saying that abs/tc is only for cars WITH forgiving chassis/suspension or not ?

oh and the RX-8 is a PZ -- Suspension redesigned by ProDrive. Better but not a lot more than stock and way better than most non-competition cars I've been around. Time to get out in an RX and put some experience behind the viewpoint. eg the T350 was a nigthmare on bumpy roads, I'm not sure if the sagaris was any better.



ANd agreed, TVRs weren't bought for reliability or comfort, Pure fun purchase.

[jediali]

Just to clear up what i said, and i apologise if my viewpoint is invalid. If i was going to put traction control on either an RX-8 or a sagaris i would put it on the sagaris, purely from a technical point of view, sorry to mislead you.

I havent spent much time around tvr's (same for others who like them i guess ) and i didnt mean to say that the i6 unreliability purely came from bad maintainance. I can believe unreliability is part of owning a TVR, bit like older alfa's.

I have no trouble in beleiving the prodive suspension is better for such uses than the 350c.

[Matra et Alpine]

Just to clear up what i said, and i apologise if my viewpoint is invalid. If i was going to put traction control on either an RX-8 or a sagaris i would put it on the sagaris, purely from a technical point of view, sorry to mislead you..

no apology necessary.
I was confused and unsure, so asked
I would put it on every car used on the streets.
As long as I could turn it all off.
The RX-8 has two levels of "off" --- seemingly if you switch it all off it writes an event in the ECU log. Hmmmm, wonder if the insurance/police would check it in teh event of an accident

[jediali]

I would put it on every car used on the streets.
As long as I could turn it all off.
The RX-8 has two levels of "off" --- seemingly if you switch it all off it writes an event in the ECU log. Hmmmm, wonder if the insurance/police would check it in teh event of an accident

yeah i agree...Companys like mercedes seem to start with electronics then optimise the handling. And as I said the only reason TVR probably dont have electronic aids is the use of brawny uncomprimising image to save cost

[Clivey]

Well I didn't lose control
I was able to detect the DSC operation and the weight transfer enough to adjust my inputs. So I'm probably faster than mere mortals

Hmmm, is the car noticeably faster with the electronics on? In the Minis, the DSC+TC system basically cuts power if you spin the wheels, meaning jerky progress and that a good driver that's able to measure throttle inputs can get off the line quicker without it turned on. I've not really tested the limits of the stability control itself, having only driven mum's car around town twice and my dad's being his tuition vehicle.

Having been in and shared track with Cerberas and Chimaeras then it makes them fun but not as fast. You are really on the edge in every corner testing when to apply power. Great on track , but a real PIA on the road for 10,000 miles a year

What does PIA mean?

The Chimaera is basially a softer, LWB version of the Griffith. The Griffith is more track orientated (try keeping pace with a good one), the Chimaera is a road car. The Cerbera will eat you up and spit you out in the straights but doesn't have TVR's most advanced chassis. As you said, fun but not as fast around the corners.

Good luck keeping up with TVR's current models around a track though. Check the TG Power Lap times for examples. They bang heads with machinery 5-10 times the price. I once tried to follow a Sagaris on a country road (to listen the exhaust note), but let's just say all I heard was the sonic boom as the driver decided to take off!

The F1 comment is a little silly as this is oen area where the technology easily transfers and was widely present in road cars before F1

Can't you spot a joke? Please, give me some credit. I'm not that stupid!

As I had already said, it is reacting as quickly.
The days when driver better than electronics are getting fewer and fewer. Todays more intelligent ABS is seldom exceeded by a driver.
I've given input on the car I was driving.
You're clearly so experienced that I'm wrong

As above, I'll point out that some of the comments I made were intended to tease and joke. I've not had much experience of said electronics, just the Minis and the Vectras we used to own. My car has ABS with EBD (which I've only used once on my car as a test) but no ESP / TC systems. What are the typical reaction / correction times of the most modern systems like?

Seldom applies to any car these days, tolerances and oils are much better, just don't over-rev them.
The main thing is to not have same revs over periods of time and Mazda explicitly mention this. Also, there is a coating on the chambers which "bed in" the tips and so it does benefit from a little "enthusiasm". With less moving parts then less to break-in

Just the excuse you need then. Just no constant-speed motorway driving from the sound of that.

Well it IS a sports car, so don't go looking for 120K
Many get there as long as properly maintained - the 20B really needed regular good quality oil changes.
Did find one guy with 400,000kms on a fully maintaing - tho' he had replaced the rotor tips twice ( not as easy a job as it sounds by all accounts )

Uh-huh. With TVR's Speed Sixes, many owners replace the standard parts with uprated stuff from TVR Power when the car needs it's first rebuild, after which they say the engine is much more reliable and lasts a LOT longer. I'll do this if (when) I eventually buy my Tuscan.

The only price is the fuel consumption

SSSHHHH!!! That's a dirty word!

[Clivey]

As for TVR's better without traction control i suppose the latest sagaris has an exclent chassis it isnt as forgiving as say an RX-8 and therefore makes it a better car to have abs etc etc (get it). TVRs lack of TC is a lot to do with its image. Perhaps if TVR didnt have such a good image and slightly worse handling it would be no better than an srt-10 - "Its fine and well having no traction control, but it ought to have some finesse to the suspension" rough quote from our beloved JC.

Another reason why TVR don't install the techno-garbage is that it saves weight. Electronics help the handling some of the time, whereas lightness helps all of the time

I can understand you saying that from a technical POV, the Sagaris etc. is more in need of electronics than the RX, but you forget the important thing - character. I strongly believe that the inclusion of such systems would spoil the purity and driving experience of the cars. It's fine on stuff like Evos and Scoobies because that's what they're all about and it's part of the driving experience of such a car, but in a TVR they're a "no-no".

Is still think TVRs are a rewarding purchase, You just need to understand what your buying. On a side note, in the tuscan interior there is a little sweety sized hole in the dash, you can put something in it, revolve it and your object disapears...where does it go...onto the road i guess!

The rotating sphere leads to a kind of storage bin underneath the centre console. Been in a few Tuscans and played around with the interiors. I love the way they're sculpted around the driver and they're such special places to be, I actually find them comfortable enough to be able to use them as daily drivers, although I'd never expose a TVR to the horrors of supermarket car-park car door bashing.

[Matra et Alpine]

Clivey ... PIA == Pain in Arse

Hmmm, yea FWD traction control is limited in what it can achieve as the fronts are doing all the work and understeer is less easily corrected than over.
I understand your comments basis now


and the other "dirty word" for the RX-8 is the CO2

[kingofthering]

I thought that was Oil consumption?

[Clivey]

I thought that was Oil consumption?

You have to check it every 2 fill-ups, apparently. IMO worth it just for the fact that the car's character is so unique.

A Japanese car with character? Check.

[Clivey]

I think the Corsa may be starting to develop a problem :

The gearbox has become reluctant to accept 1st gear unless the car's stationary, and you have to slow to 10mph before it willingly accepts 2nd. The problem's worse when it's cold... a common problem in 1977, wierd in 2007. Mum said the car's always been reluctant to change to 1st unless you're very slow but I can't verify that seeing as I've only been driving since October.

At the moment it's an annoyance rather than a major problem but I'm concerned it may get worse.

Dad suggests the synchromesh may be going. It's possible but I'm after some opinions. My car's warranty runs out on the 31st of March so I'm a little anxious.

Help anyone?

[Matra et Alpine]

I thought that was Oil consumption?

Not really and many RX owners in the club report their other cars as actually using more oil than the rotary !!

The latest gen engines have a controlled oil injector as it's not needed when pottering about but significantly extends engine life at higher revs. So far I've used 1/2 litre in 800 miles and been caning it for most of it. My race/rally cars have done a LOT worse than that !!!

As well as the driver checking the ECU is also monitoring the level and if drops too low then limits the engine to 5000 rpm !!!!


Clivey re the clutch. Check that it's disengaging properly - the cable is adjustable, might just be needing a tweak. Other options are wear in the linkages meaning it's not pushing the gear forks enough and a sticky clutch thrust bearing. Of course it might be the clutch

[h00t_h00t]

I can't see it being the synchromesh, the car would have had to have had serious abuse for it to have given up already.