problem categorising sprtscars

[Ferrer]

maybe because I read the latest EVO issue. What is weight of the Alfa?

Lower than the Audi that's for sure. I think it was around 1400kg, but IIRC an official figure hasn't been released.

[Slicks]

Muscle cars have back seats, solid rear axles, bad chassis, V8s, and crappy brakes.

This only applies to pre-90s muscle cars.
Modern day muscle cars have decent chassis, and good brakes (not to mention most of the base models have V6s, but are still "muscle cars", just ones without balls).

[Ingolstadt]

This only applies to pre-90s muscle cars.
Modern day muscle cars have decent chassis, and good brakes (not to mention most of the base models have V6s, but are still "muscle cars", just ones without balls).

As much as you love muscle cars, you seem to take offense from us calling them so.... are muscle cars that bad?

[Kitdy]

As much as you love muscle cars, you seem to take offense from us calling them so.... are muscle cars that bad?

No, he's just trying to properly classify what is a muscle car and what isn't.

[Ferrer]

As much as you love muscle cars, you seem to take offense from us calling them so.... are muscle cars that bad?

No, they are fun.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

This only applies to pre-90s muscle cars.
Modern day muscle cars have decent chassis, and good brakes (not to mention most of the base models have V6s, but are still "muscle cars", just ones without balls).

You are right. My intention was to dismiss the Vipers classification as a muscle car.

[Ingolstadt]

sports cars IMO

F430
911
MX-5
RX-8
MR-2

etc....

They're not created to win whatever records, create drag race 0-400 records or whatsoever. They're just to have fun.

Viper, Corvettes, Camaros, Mutang better remain as muscle cars cos it'll never be the choice when people wanted to have driving pleasure. All i see in them are lots of smoke, brutal, cowboy, american, unsophisticated - raw power. in short, MAN.

They're not sportscars, if they were they'll be very bad ones, whereas being musclecars, they're damn well built enough to be called one.

[nota]

Viper, Corvettes, Camaros, Mutang better remain as muscle cars cos it'll never be the choice when people wanted to have driving pleasure. All i see in them are lots of smoke, brutal, cowboy, american, unsophisticated - raw power. in short, MAN.

If Camaro, Mustang & Monaro/GTO are 'musclecars' then I guess things like these qualify too ..?

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...rbo-review.htm

[Slicks]

sports cars IMO

F430
911
MX-5
RX-8
MR-2

etc....

They're not created to win whatever records, create drag race 0-400 records or whatsoever. They're just to have fun.

Viper, Corvettes, Camaros, Mutang better remain as muscle cars cos it'll never be the choice when people wanted to have driving pleasure. All i see in them are lots of smoke, brutal, cowboy, american, unsophisticated - raw power. in short, MAN.

They're not sportscars, if they were they'll be very bad ones, whereas being musclecars, they're damn well built enough to be called one.

Wow... Whats its like to live under a rock? The very point of a muscle car is to have fun without having to break the bank.
Corvettes and Vipers are the very definition of a sportscar, they always have been.
Back to the fun to drive, I've driven an MX5 and it was no where near as fun to drive as my TransAm, even in the twisties.
Dont go talking about cars you've never had any experience with...

[Mr.Tiv]

Viper, Corvettes, Camaros, Mutang better remain as muscle cars cos it'll never be the choice when people wanted to have driving pleasure.

Have you ever driven any of those? I've driven more than a few Mustangs, and excepting a 4 cylinder Foxbody, they've all put a smile on my face.

[Ingolstadt]

To me, the terms no longer dictates their capabilities or whatsoever, it's more of the image. how people think or have the first impression bout them, on general. Yes, they are muscle cars. Perhaps the one that's least is the Corvette ... i guess.

[Kitdy]

To me, the terms no longer dictates their capabilities or whatsoever, it's more of the image. how people think or have the first impression bout them, on general. Yes, they are muscle cars. Perhaps the one that's least is the Corvette ... i guess.

The Corvette is no muscle car, neither is the Viper the Viper is just a heavy sportscar, and the 'vette is a pure sportscar - look at the thing, it is small, and only has 2 seats! The Corvette was not a muscle car back in the late 60's and it isn't one now. If you want a pretty good definition of muscle car, this is from Wikipedia:

The term muscle car generally describes a rear wheel drive mid-size car with a large, powerful engine V8 engine and special trim, intended for maximum torque on the street or in drag racing competition. It is distinguished from sports cars, which were customarily and coincidentally considered smaller, two-seat cars, or GTs, two-seat or 2+2 cars intended for high-speed touring and possibly road racing. High-performance full-size or compact cars are arguably excluded from this category, as are the breed of compact sports coupes inspired by the Ford Mustang, the "pony car". Another factor used in defining classic muscle cars are their age and country of origin. A classic muscle car is usually but not necessarily made in the US or Australia between 1964 and 1975.

The fundamental problem we have is that Ingolstadt, you have a different opinion of what a muscle car is, that's all.

[CdocZ]

To me, the terms no longer dictates their capabilities or whatsoever, it's more of the image. how people think or have the first impression bout them, on general.

So the Viper is some sort of 3week starved and crazed animal with rabies, that has been injected with 5 doses of steroids every day for the past 3 months?

[Ferrer]

So the Viper is some sort of 3week starved and crazed animal with rabies, that has been injected with 5 doses of steroids every day for the past 3 months?

Or a truck with a sportscar body on it...

[Ingolstadt]

Corvette - Sports car (ok) Viper - no no no no no no no no no

Don't forget, Viper revived the crave for muscle cars that seemed to died off after the 70's oil crisis. It is the epitome of what a modern muscle car should be. All the handling, chassis engineering or IRS are just modern implementations of what a capable car should have. It is, still a muscle car in very sense.