Ford passed Toyota Initial Quality

[nota]

Because in the UK they have a survey which checks in on owners and their vehicles after 2-3 years. perhaps a better understanding of how a vehicle truly performs in it's lifetime (and it also includes dealer service, etc)

Is it Warranty Direct you are referring to? Their methodology for surveying vehicle reliability is pretty convincing, all told

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html

[henk4]

Is it Warranty Direct you are referring to? Their methodology for surveying vehicle reliability is pretty convincing, all told

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html

it is explained somewhere how and why the US and UK manufacturer index differs in definition/representation?

[Matra et Alpine]

Then I wonder why Matra defends JD Power & Associates?

Because you were suggesting that a bunch of guys with an interest on a forum were "reliable".

JDP has issues too. ALL surveys do, that's why any intelligent person would not use ONE source to determine a POV

Can't blame people like Ford crowing about getting high results on INITIAL quality perception - because the other stuff SUCKS !! But anyone who decided to buy a Ford based on just INITIAL survey woudl be in for an upset later on !!!

[Fleet 500]

Because you were suggesting that a bunch of guys with an interest on a forum were "reliable".

But the "bunch of guy's" reviews pretty much match other reviews, such as from JP Power , Consumer Reports, Edmunds, etc.

JDP has issues too. ALL surveys do, that's why any intelligent person would not use ONE source to determine a POV

That's true. That's why I go by other sources like the ones mentioned above.

Can't blame people like Ford crowing about getting high results on INITIAL quality perception - because the other stuff SUCKS !! But anyone who decided to buy a Ford based on just INITIAL survey woudl be in for an upset later on!!!

What are you talking about? The overall repair record of Ford autos is better than several European autos, such as Mercedes.

[rev440]

Can't blame people like Ford crowing about getting high results on INITIAL quality perception - because the other stuff SUCKS !! But anyone who decided to buy a Ford based on just INITIAL survey woudl be in for an upset later on !!!

I have yet to be upset with my ford maybe the shocker is coming soon?

[The_Canuck]

I have yet to be upset with my ford maybe the shocker is coming soon?

Yeah....you have a Ford.

[rev440]

Yeah....you have a Ford.

When you get your licenses call me, thanks.

[Ferrer]

I have yet to be upset with my ford maybe the shocker is coming soon?

We had two Fords for 6 years (a Focus and a Puma) and none went wrong. The interiors weren't the best quality, but as far as reliability is concerned they were fine.

[The_Canuck]

When you get your licenses call me, thanks.

I didn't say anything that had to do with being able to drive.

[clutch-monkey]

people say toyota's last longer - even if they did, i ask why would you want them to last

[Matra et Alpine]

But the "bunch of guy's" reviews pretty much match other reviews, such as from JP Power , Consumer Reports, Edmunds, etc.

Only by your selective reading ie those that matched a report somewhere on the positive side, but ignore the rest ?

That's true. That's why I go by other sources like the ones mentioned above.

Earlier you were saying ONLY the forums ?

What are you talking about? The overall repair record of Ford autos is better than several European autos, such as Mercedes.

Best improved is Mercedes, the issue is well documented with their vast electric motors for everything phase BUT rather than avoidign the point and trying to hope it gets ignored by bringing up Mercedes lapes in quality ... as I said ... go check out the other scores in the report -- stop being selective

PS: I owned a Ford Orion for 10 years as a family car and it was OK. Not great as it required 3 replacement front discs cos they were made of cheese and it was cheaper for Ford to replace those that complained than it was to source a better part AND the valves hit the pistons -- thankfully all under warranty. Funnily the fact that an Espace I one owned had a switch that kept falling out from the day I got it till I got rid of it never seemed to cause me much concern

[Quiggs]

I learned quickly that in a fight between a piston and a valve, the valve will always lose. Though it may put a hurtin' on the piston.

I'll see if I can upload the pics off my phone of the 1.8T at the shop that skipped time. One of the intake valves was sideways and broken off, jammed into the head. It was beautiful.

[The_Canuck]

Timing belts are the cheapest thing that can cause the most trouble

[Fleet 500]

Only by your selective reading ie those that matched a report somewhere on the positive side, but ignore the rest ?

I've read almost all of the reviews for mid-'90s- current Crown Vics, so I'm not ignoring the rest.
To recap, here are the numbers for those who would buy another Crown Vic, those who were undecided, and those who wouldn't.

Year of Crown Vic-- Would buy again- Undecided- Would not by again
1992-------------- 12--------------- 0-------- 3
1993-------------- 14--------------- 3-------- 1
1994-------------- 9---------------- 5-------- 5
1995-------------- 12--------------- 1--------- 0
1996-------------- 13--------------- 1--------- 1
1997-------------- 16--------------- 1--------- 0
1998-------------- 8---------------- 2--------- 0
1999-------------- 12---------------- 1-------- 0


As can be seen, a lot more postives than negatives, which is what I said in the first place.

Earlier you were saying ONLY the forums ?

I don't recall ever saying that I only go by one source. Probably because I don't.

Best improved is Mercedes, the issue is well documented with their vast electric motors for everything phase BUT rather than avoidign the point and trying to hope it gets ignored by bringing up Mercedes lapes in quality ... as I said ... go check out the other scores in the report -- stop being selective

Best improved is right... they needed a lot of improving! Kind of sad considering how expensive they are.

PS: I owned a Ford Orion for 10 years as a family car and it was OK. Not great as it required 3 replacement front discs cos they were made of cheese and it was cheaper for Ford to replace those that complained than it was to source a better part AND the valves hit the pistons -- thankfully all under warranty. Funnily the fact that an Espace I one owned had a switch that kept falling out from the day I got it till I got rid of it never seemed to cause me much concern

Things like that can (and does) happen in more expensive cars, too.

[Fleet 500]

Timing belts are the cheapest thing that can cause the most trouble

I'm sure glad my Cads have a timing chain, which doesn't need to be replaced every 60-70,000 miles. Timing chains last a lonnnng time!