Gran Turismo 5

[Kitdy]

i'm the opposite..flat out can not stand to use wheels... no idea why, think it's the lack of feedback.

I don't like them either - I'd rather the completely unrealistic controller than the poor imitation that is the wheel.

[clutch-monkey]

I don't like them either - I'd rather the completely unrealistic controller than the poor imitation that is the wheel.

i think that's what it is for me.
the wheel is closer to reality and thus it's flaws are more obvious perhaps? controller has worked better for me.. adapted to it i suppose.

[Kitdy]

i think that's what it is for me.
the wheel is closer to reality and thus it's flaws are more obvious perhaps? controller has worked better for me.. adapted to it i suppose.

I don't like driving games much though I gotta say. I was never very good at them, and I found them ultra-repetitive - even for video games, which are often very repetitive.

I think that spending 40 bucks to go go-karting for 20 minutes has provided me with more fun than all the hours I've played driving games. I haven't played them too much though - the only sim(ish) one I owned was the original Forza.

[Matra et Alpine]

Someone needs to make an open source car model language.

The problem with that woudl be the different way different designers simplofy the model of the car. Remember reading discussion with Richard Burns Rally designers who said the ultimate goal would be to model the moving parts all the way to the pistons so that the nuances of handling altereed by engine revs coudl be properly simulated Not enough computing availabel freely enough for that yet. But each release the rea-sim guys add more detail and less averaged equation models.
However, within each of those the models are defined and the race-sim modders provide tools to modify the parameters the model uses.
Jsut not in the console games.... market doesn't need/want it there (yet).
CHeck out the add-ons for GPL. AWESOME quantity and quality. GTR likewise and rFactor is the ultimate open.
Many cars are ported between sims too as well as tracks.

I can't disagree, but how can they now how to set the McLaren Mp4-12C model if no one ever drove that car?

As I'd said, IF (asssumption) the developers have created a good enough model of car dynamics ( has to be simplified from real world by definition ) then by determining the model factors for the car ( eg power, torque, weight, compliance, geometry ) and plugging those into the sim then you have it.
Now before thinking that can't work as it by definition "loses" details then think of mp3 or divx. These are "models" of real world audio/video that throw data away and yet are msot of the time unnoticable from the original. It doens't need to be PERFECT, only enough that we wont notice

And I don't think GT4 was that good not only at transmitting what driving is like, but also simulating the dynamics. FWD cars were just wrong, oversteering was impossible, the grip was way too inertia-influenced, and so on so forth.

bad "model"

My issue with FWD car in GT is their front tire wear is ridiculous...any race longer than 5 laps and you'll be shooting off course due to lack of front tire left...

Raced a FWD car on track tarmac at track speeds ?
VERY easy to overheat fronts by over forcing understeer.
All that excess angle slip melts fronts.
Hell you can do it to RWD fronts ... I blitzed a new set of race tyres on a track jsut last month because the fronts had too high a slip angle and boiled up in 2 laps
So it may not be that unrealistic, it may be our expectation
But I dont rate the GT series as realistic
Also some features are accelerated by default in most race games so you dont have to spend 3 hours at the wheel to experience all aspects of a race ! CHeck the settings.

I only used game pad, never managed to use a wheel controller... on a computer/console.

For me then can't compare as a "sim" as the main input we use - ie feedback from the wheel is missing

I think that spending 40 bucks to go go-karting for 20 minutes has provided me with more fun than all the hours I've played driving games.

true, but getting the feel of the 'Ring in a 917 is a little more expensive
Karting at midnight to get a break from work insanity isn't an option either.
Definately, rather go racing ( at ~ $700 a weekend at the mo ) than PC sim.

I haven't played them too much though - the only sim(ish) one I owned was the original Forza.

It's worth trying rFactor demo download or Real Time Racer ( tho I'm still undecided about it's feel-factor )
Consoles dont' ever hack it for me as imho they work on getting performance out of the platform and getting good looking flash to maximise the market size rather than aiming to meet the near realistic sim market.

[Kitdy]

true, but getting the feel of the 'Ring in a 917 is a little more expensive
Karting at midnight to get a break from work insanity isn't an option either.
Definately, rather go racing ( at ~ $700 a weekend at the mo ) than PC sim.

At this point, I don't see how racing would be more fun than karting. Karting is such a pure and visceral experience. It seems like that in this form of driving, you are much more connected to the machine than any other. Plus, it's cheap, the speeds I do it at are relatively safe, and you can take a few friends and have a blast.

I don't think I will have more fun driving any car that I will own or can even think of owning.

[Matra et Alpine]

Dont think ANYONE was suggesting sims are "more fun" than real life.

By karting do you mean the club level single engined no clutch karts or proper race karts ? From the prices if translated to over here then it's not the racing karts. Fast and fun but not as capable or challenging in setup and racing as the "real ones". Are they twin-engined ?

Once you get the chance to try a racing kart the difference will blow you away. Capable of 120mph .... kart held the track record at KNockhill for a long time

Rallying or racing is a possibility in your future and trackday a high likeloihood I hope and you'll look back at karting likely in the same way you'll comapre a good steak to the baby-mush meals you had as a kid.

[Kitdy]

These are itty bitty one gear indoor karts. They are fun.

If I were to want to do some racing, I would be more interested in the outdoor karts that run on the karting track at Mosport than a track day with a real car.

Real cars are just so cumbersome and detached compared to karts.

I will admit though that rallying looks like tremendous fun. I also think drifting looks ridiculously fun though I really hate the culture associated with it.

[whiteballz]

What repulses you about the drift culture?

[LeonOfTheDead]

It always seemed to me that GT4 didn't really have enough models to simulate all the cars which, on paper, could have similar performances. At the end of the day they were all equally quick, all using the same tactics.

6:58 as a Nurburgring lap time, with a Zonda, a Ford GT and a Mercedes SLR, seriously?
The M5 at a spitting distance (7:15 iirc) and faster than other sportscars? All stock cars.

The main difference there seemed to be played by the power/weight ration, which albeit important can be very deceptive. Height of the CG, chassis stiffness (not even considering aluminum monocoque VS CF monocoque VS steel frame), gearbox speed, behavior of the engine at middle revs, they all seemed to be... irrelevant, or just not considered by the aforementioned models...

Enthusia had a much more precise physics, you could tell the difference between an Alfa 147 GTA and a Clio RS 2.0, you could really perceive the massive understeering because of the equally massive mass at the front on the Alfa, as well as you could tell an NSX was miles ahead of a Corvette C5 in terms of handling. AI was also much much better. First time I was passed on the outside of a corner, and then it happened again, and again. There really were some races I was struggling to win.

Lap times on the 'Ring are also much closer to the reality, difficult to go much under the 8 minutes mark with an NSX-R.

Same as S.C.A.R., were I even had to use the analogical pressure of the ps2's controller's buttons in order to avoid wheel locking (ABS deactivated ) or spinning while accelerating, and at the same time it was evident as the old 33.2 was lighter than an 8C or many other featured cars.
Too bad it was such a small game.

[Kitdy]

What repulses you about the drift culture?

The cars mostly.

I'd be wary of those that are into it as well - other actors in my life have contributed to my rather negative view of them. Whether this is valid or not, I do not know.

You seem to be into that kinda shit, and I hate you, so...

[Magnum9987]

Alright, heres something for ya:

Sebastian vettel got into racing by playing GT1 on PS1. He then started racing Karts.
In fact, Sebastian Vettel is a posterboy for GT5, and he ahs featured on the X1 prototype video.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvxMEOO4a_E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvxMEOO4a_E[/ame]

[whiteballz]

The cars in the drift culture?

Care to explain in further detail? I'm curious as it appears your painting an entire sport with one tarred brush.

[Matra et Alpine]

What woudl you expect Vettel to say given he's being paid to promote GT5
Advertising law requires ihinm only to have owned and played it once when he was a kid !
Spinning it out to infer he "got into racing" from playing Gran Turismo is a brilliant piece of marketing.
Up there with the tea party in the USA

EDIT: Just checked ..... so according to Vettel's recorded statistics he WON the NRW Cup karting championship in 1997.
GT was LAUNCHED in .... DECEMBER 1997. SO he must be some wunderkind who can get GT, play it, decide to get in to racing and THEN win that seasons championship all in one month. WOW. Do we all smell the BS ??? According to Wiki he was racing karts since '95.

[Kitdy]

The cars in the drift culture?

Care to explain in further detail? I'm curious as it appears your painting an entire sport with one tarred brush.

I have tried to write something for the past 5 minutes, but nothing good has come out.

This is something I may revisit.

I realize I am being unfair by saying I dislike the entire culture.

What I can say though, is that the image of drift culture that has been transmitted to me through various media has left me with a negative impression.

Whether or not the image transmitted is accurate and/or completely representative of the culture is up for debate, as is or my judgment of the culture.

I may not know the whole picture, but I don't like what I see so far. It's an ignorant position surely, but I have had no desire to explore the situation further due to disliking what I have seen.

[clutch-monkey]

The cars in the drift culture?

nissans and the people who drive them