2009 Audi R8 V10 Spy shot

[Ferrer]

You make it sound as if VAG is some sort of "Hank Scorpio-esque" evil corporation.

"On today's schedule, ve vill be discussing ze destruction of ze Lamorghini brand, our new Evil-Moonbase, und ze cleaning out of ze Deadly Pirhana tank..."

I'm not ruling out anything...

You'd really rather Lamborghini made cars that were bad to drive but looked like a 13 year-old's wet dream?

That would certainly keep 13 year-olds happy, but the problem with that market is that they only buy posters, not £150,000 supercars - that is left to their fathers, who probably don't want to spend £150,000 on a supercar that drives like shit.

I welcome the quality, but I wouldn't want to trade the quality for the character because then I'd just buy an Audi and that's it which are fast and have good quality.

Of course this is meaningless in the real world since the kind of people who buy this car will be enlithgended by the badge that by what the car is. Those are the kind of people who buy flappy paddle gearboxes and SUVs. My rant is purely from the petrolhead point of view.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Well the thing is the R8 V10 will most probably have the 5-litre 500bhp V10, since I don't think there's enough of a difference between the 450bhp V10 and the 420bhp V8 to justify the bigger engine. That means that the V10 will not be unique to Lamborghini either. I'm basing my arguments on this point. If that for some reason isn't the case, I'll admit that my arguments would be slitghly flawed.?

Then your argument is flawed. Unless Audi shortens the stroke, the R8 V10 will be their 5.2ltr version (most likely retuned) as that's what they can make in their factory.

About the Continental, yes the decision might have been taken at Crewe but let's be brutally honest I doubt they either a) had much of chance in saying no or b) Crewe has become nothing more than a subsidiary of Wolfsburg. Being run by a chap called Franz Josef Paefgen doesn't help either.

Quick, before ze German's get here!

I'm not saying it's a bad car at all, I'm just saying that it suffers from the VAG syndrome again, from my point of view. There might be people who like it and that's perfectly fine by me. I just can't.

VAG Syndrome? What is that? The fact that it'll always start? Or bits of trim won't fall off?

Regarding the interiors, again it's the same story as with the exterior. the designer of the Gallardo was a chap Luc Donckerwolke, which isn't a Lamborghini designer at all, more a bloke put there by Volkswagen. His job since 2005 is Seat Design Director. And that's the problem really, the reliability is great but they don't seem to grasp Lamborghini at all.

Donckerwolke also designed the Murcielago, that in your opinion is fine despite also being designed and made under Audi's ownership.

Yes the did restrained GT's in the 60's and 70's, but since the Miura that image disappeared and Lamborghinis became sinonimous with bedroom poster cars, the ultimate pinup supercars. Who cares what it's like drive when it looks like that. Definitely in a Lamborghini form was above function. The Gallardo is quite the opposite (and in a way so's the Murcielago) brilliant technically, but very restrained. Is Lamborghini trying to be Ferrari?

With a Gallardo, yes they are, and as a company selling cars that people want and making money yes. The Gallardo was supposed to a driver's supercar to line up against the 360/430, rather than an insane hypercar, so it has heaps of grip and poise and can be driven on the limit, rather than having to tip-toe it around in case it snaps around on you.

[Ferrer]

Then your argument is flawed. Unless Audi shortens the stroke, the R8 V10 will be their 5.2ltr version (most likely retuned) as that's what they can make in their factory.

If they can use the Gallardo chasis they can use the Gallardo engine. For that we'll have to wait and see.

VAG Syndrome? What is that? The fact that it'll always start? Or bits of trim won't fall off?

No the fact that cars are boring and germanised...

Donckerwolke also designed the Murcielago, that in your opinion is fine despite also being designed and made under Audi's ownership.

It's better than the Gallardo, the interior isn't that German, it has the proper V12, but still it's tamer than the previous Lambo hypercars. If you read post #43 I say that in a way the Murcielago has also been affected by that (altough the LP640 is certainly a little bit better).

With a Gallardo, yes they are, and as a company selling cars that people want and making money yes. The Gallardo was supposed to a driver's supercar to line up against the 360/430, rather than an insane hypercar, so it has heaps of grip and poise and can be driven on the limit, rather than having to tip-toe it around in case it snaps around on you.

Well you can better a Ferrari at being a Ferrari. Again, I prefer the Cala I find it more exciting on the outside and the interior... well the interiors just can't be compared. I'll say it again, the quality is welcomed, of course it is I'm not that daft, but not at the expense of character and style. Not if that is supposed to be a Lamborghini.

[2ndclasscitizen]

If they can use the Gallardo chasis they can use the Gallardo engine. For that we'll have to wait and see.

No they can't. Lambo will currently be utilising their maximum production capacity.

[Ferrer]

No they can't. Lambo will currently be utilising their maximum production capacity.

I don't think it's that difficult to produce the 5-litre V10 chez Audi, if that was needed. Since they are making cars to make money, it'd suprise me if the choose upgrade the 5.2-litre version when they just have a version ready for what they need.

I reckon that anything is possible though, and that this will be settled when they finally launch the V10 engined R8. Since then everything is speculation and rumour and either of us could be right.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I don't think it's that difficult to produce the 5-litre V10 chez Audi, if that was needed. Since they are making cars to make money, it'd suprise me if the choose upgrade the 5.2-litre version when they just have a version ready for what they need.

Because the 5.2 is what they need. Changing fuel and ignition maps is easier than designing a new bottom end to make a shorter stroke engine.

[Coventrysucks]

Interesting detail regarding the Audi V10:

Evo 091

"Audi describes the 5.2-litre V10 as a 'derivative' of the Lamborghini's V10, and in fact the 5.2 shares very few components with the 5-litre Lamborghini unit, the only significant shared parts being the drivetrain for the four camshafts. The reason is that the Audi V10s are built at the same factory as every other Audi engine, which, for economies of scale, has been configured to produce engines with a common 90mm bore spacing. The bore spacing of the Gallardo engine is 88mm. This is how the Audi V10 ends up with a different cylinder block, a new crankshaft, different pistons and new camshafts, while the more restricted engine bay, plus Audi's desire to give the engine its FSI direct injection, result in bespoke induction and exhaust systems and a new sump."

[alpina_m5]

thxxxxxxx for the pic

[Waugh-terfall]

Some spyshots from Pistonheads.

Note the changes:
2-strut grilles have replaced the 3-strut grilles up front
Side air intakes have increased slightly in size
2-strut grilles habe replaced the 4-strut grilles at the rear
Brake discs are enlarged
and
there are now only 2 tailpipes rather than the 4

[NSXType-R]

Nice......

It didn't seem as if Volkswagen was going to have the balls to build this.

I guess not.

[cmcpokey]

i'll have mine in flat black, thank you.

[NSXType-R]

i'll have mine in flat black, thank you.

Stripping the paint off and using spray paint always works.

[cmcpokey]

could you imagine the R8 in black primer with some old school pinstriping... very cool looking

[Ingolstadt]

flat black? black primer? is it matt black ?

[cmcpokey]

flat black? black primer? is it matt black ?

yes, yes, and yes