Lexus IS220d vs Peugeot 407 Coupé 2.0 HDi

[Lagonda]

So, my mom's shopping for a new car since her lease on her E-class is about to end. She can't get a new E-class because of some changes in the company car plan which now dictate that you can only chose from cars that produce less than 175g/km CO2 (or was it 172 ? whatever). So she HAS to downsize.
It's between the Lexus IS220d and the Peugeot 407 coupé now. BMW 3-series is an option as well but she already had 2 or 3 of those so she doensn't really want another one.
The Lexus is the "Business" versions which is full option except for Xenon and rainsensor, which is retarded (also no sunroof). She really wants that rain sensor. The Peugeot: full option except for the sunroof OR the extra leather pack (getting both of them would be out budget). The 407 does come with turning Xenons and that rainsensor.

We drove them both, the Lexus is really small in the back, the 407 Coupé is a coupé but still pretty large in the back. Either way, she's always in the car by herself. The boot on the lexus is pretty damn small as well, I think the 407's boot is larger. The windows on the Lexus are pretty small and visibility is mediocre, but so is the visibility on the 407. The 407 has a HUGE ass and it's pretty hard to judge where the car ends and begins (it's longer than the 407 station wagon!). But it does have front and back parking assist so I guess it doens't matter (the lexus has a camera).
The lexus is off course rear wheel drive but I don't think she really cares. It's a lot more powerfull tough. But, both cars will do 160kmh without a problem and that's all that matters to her. I am somewhat afraid of build quality issues on the 407..

It all boils down to, yet another, 4-door or a coupé.

What would you guys choose and why ?

[nota]

Not much to contribute I'm afraid, as not overly familiar with either car as neither specific version is sold here. Nevertheless in reading between your lines it seems the Pug is more to your favour, and to help you in that endeavour I remember the endearingly twisted logic used by a Jag enthusiast to justify his troublesome purchase ..

"What's the point in having a special car if you can't have a little trouble with it?"

Being a lease-car they will always be under warranty which means no-cost repairs albeit with inconvenience. But how do the residuals compare between the two?

Perhaps your Mum is of like-mind to me in thinking that luxo-coupe motoring brings more of a 'sense of occasion' than do humdrum sedans. As to my view I can only guess that the Lexus should likely be a better drive while the 407 could be the better ride, if you know what I mean (ie ambience, which can be especially important to women)

For an aside, as I age I find that Ease of Operation also becomes an increasing factor to consider, including weighty doors that require slamming or having to wrestle with unneccasarily heavy controls and features

Europe enjoys a far wider choice than we do for these types of vehicle, so excuse my ignorance for market class/price alternatives. I'm not pushing the 'Benz barrow' but wouldn't the new C-class be a more equitable competitor to Lexus IS, not E-class? And when does that attractive new Laguna Coupe debut?

[Vindesh17]

I'd choose the IS but that's just me personally. I prefer a car that would be less trouble... and don't judge me by the cars I drive.

[Lets Gekiga In]

I would take the Lexus as well.

Would cause less problems down the road and the IS is also a fun car to drive (not sure if your mother would like that or not though).

[Lagonda]

For an aside, as I age I find that Ease of Operation also becomes an increasing factor to consider, including weighty doors that require slamming or having to wrestle with unneccasarily heavy controls and features

Europe enjoys a far wider choice than we do for these types of vehicle, so excuse my ignorance for market class/price alternatives. I'm not pushing the 'Benz barrow' but wouldn't the new C-class be a more equitable competitor to Lexus IS, not E-class? And when does that attractive new Laguna Coupe debut?

The pug has probably the heaviest doors ever. I have never felt heavier doors on a car before. They don't require slamming or anything but they are heavy to open. They do give an impression of being pretty solid. Another downside on the ease of operation of the 407 is that it doesn't have those dead-corner mirrors. Which is a pain if you're used to them. Heck, even my Clio has those.
Then again, the Lexus has very bad visibility and feels very cramped inside.

I thought about the new C-class as well, but it's a Mercedes again. She wants a totally different car. And to her a C-class is just a smaller E-class.

Unfortunately the Laguna Coupé is too far away. She needs to order in the next 30 days or so. If it was available I'd be all over it.

I must admit that I prefer the 407 altough I'm afraid for reliability issues.. It's a lease so it's free but I'm afraid that it will bring too much inconvenience like you said. I also like the 407 since it's the only coupé in the company car-lease plan so it's different to all the millions of lease 3-series, A4s etc on the road.
PS: the A4 isn't really and option, she's not interested in Audis.

The situation became even worse when she moved the ultimate decision over to me yesterday evening because she can't choose! I hate luxury problems.

[clutch-monkey]

^ poor baby
the lexus is the better built car but the pug is more interesting, is how i see it.

[ruim20]

The lexus, everything is better... end!

Weird comparison...

[Lagonda]

The lexus, everything is better... end!

Weird comparison...

Could you explain why ?

Sure, technically it's better and it's probably more reliable. If it were a car that we would buy ourselves then it would be the Lexus without a doubt. But this car comes with free maintenance, repair and gas... So reliability isn't extremely unimportant. It's not as if the pug will break down every 1000kms. After 45 months it will be gone.
If you look at interior quality then you'll see that the lexus is a little bit better but it does have cheap-looking plastics.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Has an Audi ever figured into the equation? what about the new A5?

[Lagonda]

Has an Audi ever figured into the equation? what about the new A5?

She has zero interest in Audi, too boring and uncomfortable suspension. The A5 is way out of budget* (I must admit that I kinda like the A5). And it doesn't offer engines that do less than 175g/km of CO2 IIRC.

*the way that lease budgets are calculated is mind boggleing. Car A can cost the same as car B but car B can be completely out of budget while car A is in budget. That has probably to do with maintenance costs, residual value and other factors.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

ok. just curious as to her thoughts.

What is the price range, out of curiosity?

[Lagonda]

Around €600/month, without VAT. (max 620 but she doesn't want to overspend too much).

As for real world car prices:
The lexus is €38.230, Lexus IS220d Business with navi pack and leather pack.
The 407 is €35.870, It's a Pack version with the navi pack so it's full option.

Those prices include 21% VAT.

So it's probably around €35k (Lexus gives very sharp fleet prices that's probably why it's within budget, and it's reliable). But like I said, it depends on a lot of factors. Volvo for example: The S60 D5 Summum is 35.900 but it's completely out of budget. The only one that is within budget is the 2.4 (126bhp) base version that sits around 30k. While Volvo doesn't strike me as being completely unreliable. Which is unfortunate since she really likes the S60.

Other options include BMW 318d (or 320d with basic equipment), Audi A4, A3 in all forms (2.0 TDI) even the 170bhp DSG versions, BMW 1-series (maybe even the 123d), C-class, Jag X-type and others.

While looking at prices I just noticed the Laguna 3. I think I'm going to take a look at that one this week as well. The 175bhp Initiale version (full option one) is CHEAPER than the previous generation at €35400.

[Lagonda]

Anyone know the exact release date for the BMW 1-series Coupé in continental Europe? Looks VERY interesting, a 120d Coupé only does 128g/km CO2 which means huge discounts = extra money for adding more options. Plus it has 177bhp = 7,6 sec 0-100 = quick.

Nevermind got it: November, the 120d is the same price as a 318d. Interesting, very interesting indeed.

[digitalcraft]

Lexi are so boring looking to me.

[henk4]

is the 2.2 Hdi Biturbo out of your budget?