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Thread: F1 Aerodynamics!

  1. #1
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    F1 Aerodynamics!

    How many professional aerodynamic engineers, or anyone with detailed knowledge of this field are on this site? The McLaren front wing is a puzzle.

    Starting on the straight, the center of the front wing is high. It takes a certain high speed, therefore very high down force, before it dips down almost out of sight. Now, the car is very fast, as this drag is minimized.

    As soon as the braking starts, it pops up fast. It is in this position for all corners, and at all lesser speeds.

    Questions:

    1 - Are the flow patterns, and so drag, at the different heights significant enough ?

    2 - What does the movement occur on? Torsion on the end plates is obvious answer - is that correct?

    3 - The end plates are wide front to back, broad side-to-side, and so are important front wings. They are outside the so called exempt "central box". Do they get enough torsion from the mobile mid-section to reduce drag on the straights?

    4 - A significant force keeps the "exempt" mid-section down. That is gone at the corners, the mid-section is in the highest level, different flow pattern. Is that enough to follow another car at the corners, without losing much grip?

    5 - Does this mean the car has two front wings, one for the fastest segments and one for the slower speeds, from the same wing?

    6 - Does this give racing advantage? Canada, USA and Monza, etc.

    7 - What do the FIA people think the up and down movement of the mid-section occurs on - springs? That carbon fiber is very strong - it has to move something; here it twists its wide end segments, the front-end wings, to reduce drag at top speeds and increase down force at all corners and slower speeds.

    So, any thoughts people - experts or not in the field of aerodynamics!

  2. #2
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    There is only one question that I can answer, #6. It must be of some advantage or they would not use it.

    In half an hour or so, a guy that works with carbonfibre's for a living comes by to go to a race. I'll ask him. If i don't forget, I will ask the teacher on this subject on wednesday (or someone in this field, on the seminar tomorrow).

  3. #3
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    First of all, you are talking too much about movement, as if there is some adjustability.
    THERE SHOULD BE NONE (within the tolerances), because it isn't allowed under the regulations.
    NO movable aerodynamic devices.
    There maybe some slight deflections here and there, but they have to be within the limits to pass the wing load tests.
    The nose over wing in combination with the end plates "steer" and "quide" the air (so that it produces the most downforce with the least drag) over the rest of the car body.

    autosport.com - the authority on Formula One, F1, MotoGP, WRC, IRL, GP2, Champ Car, Le Mans, NASCAR and more ...Racing Comments threads ...is a good site to read through on such discussions, especially when Ferrari used "visibly" moving front wing elements last year...which they wer forced to reinforce and "fix" rigidly.
    Last edited by macoran; 10-21-2007 at 05:25 AM. Reason: addition

  4. #4
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    i dont see how the FIA allows them to keep it, it is illeagal, it does move.

  5. #5
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    I would love to answer you... i am also puzzeled by this in fact... there is somthing about it that is radically different to the rest of the cars out there.

    i am sure that it wouldn't have any "moving parts" on it, with all the checks that go on in F1 and how tight they are with the rules it would be safe to say it is "legal".

    it has changed considerably since the start of the year also... just by looking at the pictures of the car... thats understandable. that large wing over the nose cone is questionable... they are the only ones to do it... when i see that i think they are pushing the boundries of the rules a bit (but have found a loop hole)

    i am not a expert... but Mclaren have been very shifty this year so anything is possible with them
    "No sir you may not eat my hat"


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  6. #6
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    Given that McLaren have on several occasions offered the FIA the chance to examine, in detail, every aspect of this year's car, do you think it is likely that they have any illegal devices on board?

    Similarly, given that the footage is available for all to see, why have no other teams or the FIA demanded the wing be examined if it is so obvious that it moves "illegally" or otherwise?

  7. #7
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    The Official Formula 1 Website

    It doesn't "move" , I suspect camera angles fooled the observor

    If you go through the many technical pages at the link above you'll gain much insight into the evolutino of various features on F1 cars.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coventrysucks View Post
    Given that McLaren have on several occasions offered the FIA the chance to examine, in detail, every aspect of this year's car, do you think it is likely that they have any illegal devices on board?

    Similarly, given that the footage is available for all to see, why have no other teams or the FIA demanded the wing be examined if it is so obvious that it moves "illegally" or otherwise?
    it is a McLaren wing so by definition it cannot be illegal
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #9
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    The teams all design flexibility into the carbon fibre. They HAVE to. If they didnt, all the carbon wings would shatter as soon as they get a large force on them. Theyre designed to flex maybe a mm or so to help absorb all that loading. The FIA banned moveable aerodynamic devices, but theyve only got a static load test to try and enforce that rule. The teams are designing wings that can sustain these loads but at 300km/h theyre experiencing much heavier loads. Not to mention theyre designing wings to work until 250km/h before stalling.
    I am the Stig

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KFA-R View Post
    I would love to answer you... i am also puzzeled by this in fact... there is somthing about it that is radically different to the rest of the cars out there.

    i am sure that it wouldn't have any "moving parts" on it, with all the checks that go on in F1 and how tight they are with the rules it would be safe to say it is "legal".

    it has changed considerably since the start of the year also... just by looking at the pictures of the car... thats understandable. that large wing over the nose cone is questionable... they are the only ones to do it... when i see that i think they are pushing the boundries of the rules a bit (but have found a loop hole)

    i am not a expert... but Mclaren have been very shifty this year so anything is possible with them
    They are not the only one using a bridge wing over the nose. Red Bull and Toro Rosso have used them. Honda has tried one in testing.The why and WHEN it is used by the others depends how the bridge wing "aero" blends with the rest of the cars' aerodynamic changes at different circuits.

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