My plan executed with some C4

[Ferrer]

Just for the record I like your little frenchie.

Not as good as Sam's flying croissant, but you're close.

[jediali]

Surely a comfortable ride is supposed to be part of a premium or luxury car though - I really don't get the point of most Audis and some BMWs riding so hard. They say it's to give greater handling abilities but:

cant say I disagree in part. I feel these cars feel under pressure to optimise their car to have good road holding at high speed ( i mean absolute confidence at 140mph) and that is unfortuantely going to require a particular spring rate and damper setup that means low speed ride is compromised (wide tyres for high speed purpose wont help either, or fashionable drug dealer wheels). variable technologys are emerging to solve this. think how magnetic fluids and speed sensitive damper valves are being used more now. citroens system undoubtably offers valuble variability (hydro dynamic 3+) but they still say keen drivers should choose coils ?!?.

- Who drives these cars (A6s and 5-series) hard enough to notice a difference?

not enough probably, but I know many people in such cars dont want body roll as they go round roundabouts at 40 and then suddenly overtaking me in Aberdeen. for bmw, audi etc "bums on seats laddie, bums on seats" = bad low speed ride i guess.

- With a ride as hard as some German cars, bumps in the road cause the handling to become worse, not better.

I partly disagree:
Definitions - like i said "hard ride" needs to be thought about. they havent just slashed of all the travel, it just means you need to find the road surfaces (bad in UK, engineers fault?maybe?) and speeds to suit setup to realise such travel effectively. consider compression/rebound damping setup for perfect apsorption of a 80mph bump, it wont work at 30mph the same. ultimate examples of this include the fq400 and nobles etc. Point is uncomfy at 30 wont guarantee uncomfy at 80 or so. Im not saying this is true for all cars but it explains a good few.

When you corner hard you want your outer wheels to maintain good grip while absorbing bumps (perpendicular tyre contact, get this best in double wishbone, 5 link etc). So linking in with the last paragraph combine a suspension design that maintains good tyre contanct over a wider range of travel and you get a car that grips well all the time and realises better suspension function at higher speed, so higher cornering speeds (illeagel) are suddenly very easy.

Remember also that many cars realise occupant comfort from subframe bushings, particularly at low speeds (fluid filled bushings are very common now) supporting your argument for better comfort.

I hate to say it but "in my car" (my car is no benchmark on UCP IMO) yes low speed ride suffers (possibly 235 tyres dont help here) but at speed the trademark high speed stability is undeniable. Perhaps they could have found a better compromise and used the double wishbones all round to achieve a better balance than they did. The engine nailed to the grill doesnt help , you could say owning an A4 is like sponsoring a disabled child in some ways.

- A hard ride causes more wear and tear on the rest of the car's components

your not wrong, i hope the development of these premium cars include that of higher integrity and durability. As you go from B to C to D segment cars i think your paying for a better slice of engineering development, also the higher running costs should attribute to better more considerate maintanance and checks. For example I would rather pay for a good service if the mechanic will inspect my multitude of bushes. Yes its a cost, but petrolheads will pay this if driving is their passion.

It's a joke! Although I do sometimes detect a subtle hint of "I wouldn't buy a French car incase I got stung" from some people (although mine is beter-built than a new Focus)...fact is, I've gotta prepare myself for the TVR!

haha! i wouldnt buy your car because i want a different set of values from a car - french/citroen does not bother me ultimately.

Audi DO/did offer that as a £50 option on your car...I guess I could set-up a business with it though - bull semen is particularly profitable isn't it?

sorry, meant to say " fit as standard" not "offer". as for bull semen im no expert (its big in spain, see Albert), you might need that to counter the depreciation of the twin chevron (<-thats a joke! just so you know, got it? sure?)

Don't worry - I know it's a joke, but the ability to respond in a way that "rains on the joker's parade" is one I'm trying to perfect...

no worrys, we will keep giving you oppertunities.

[clarkey]

Your parents new C4 looks the part

[Waugh-terfall]

Actually, it's his own C4, the 'rents drive a newMINI CooperD mk2 & a new MINI OneD mk1

Clive, have you tried out your Mum's new CooperD? Same engine as yours isn't it?

[Clivey]

Clive, have you tried out your Mum's new CooperD? Same engine as yours isn't it?

It's the same engine, but with a different (better) 6-speed manual gearbox and the "Stop-Start" system. It also has about 200kg less weight to pull around. The thing is though, the C4 and the Mini aren't the same kind of car (seating four is a problem in the Mini, as is bootspace) so the C4 "gets away with it"!

I've not had the chance to drive the Mini any distance yet, but what I can tell you is that the lighter weight and gearbox make a massive difference to performance. The C4 sometimes suffers from clutch judder when you're using only the clutch to move the car around car-parks etc. but the Mini just doesn't do this.

This is further evidence for those (like me) that believe cars should be made lighter. I also wish the C4 had the Minis gearbox, but then you look at the price of the Mini and what you actually get for your money and it doesn't seem so bad after-all. Especially comparing the C4 to the competition.

[nota]

The C4 sometimes suffers from clutch judder when you're using only the clutch to move the car around car-parks etc. but the Mini just doesn't do this.

This is further evidence for those (like me) that believe cars should be made lighter.

Not wishing to be picky but (if I've grasped your written intention correctly) isn't clutch shudder principally related to excessive wear and/or previous abuse or maybe an oil leak, with vehicle weight being a distant culprit overall?

[henk4]

Not wishing to be picky but (if I've grasped your written intention correctly) isn't clutch shudder principally related to excessive wear and/or previous abuse or maybe an oil leak, with vehicle weight being a distant culprit overall?

I read that too, and I am wondering what is meant. I do the same thing, (moving the car around on the clutch, running idle) and never experienced this sort of shudders...

[nota]

I do the same thing, (moving the car around on the clutch, running idle) and never experienced this sort of shudders...

Fwiw this gentle 'idling off' from a standstill is the correct practice for getting underway in heavy (and I meant really heavy) trucks, so you don't break anything due to the forces involved - ie 'immovable object vs irresistable force'

[henk4]

Fwiw this gentle 'idling off' from a standstill is the correct practice for getting underway in heavy (and I meant really heavy) trucks, so you don't break anything due to the forces involved - ie 'immovable object vs irresistable force'

I do it for parking manoeuvres, and in traffic jams...low end diesel torque will not stall the car. (I actually can reach 3rd gear easily without touching the throttle at all...)

[clutch-monkey]

tricky with something like a rotary?

[henk4]

tricky with something like a rotary?

I would not want to try it, but we are now discussing the benefits of a diesel engine

[clutch-monkey]

you could say a rotary is an oil burner

[Ferrer]

I do it for parking manoeuvres, and in traffic jams...low end diesel torque will not stall the car. (I actually can reach 3rd gear easily without touching the throttle at all...)

I do it also, it makes driving easier and more comfortable. Altough to a lesser extent the Mini was also able to do it.

[henk4]

you could say a rotary is an oil burner

if it only had the torque to prove that....

[nota]

Apparently there are quite a few efi engines wherein the factory 'mapping' does not extend to beneath-idle speed, or very little below it, and these engines simply shut down and can thus be quite easy to stall as a result if a driver causes the revs to dip below the idle setting

I also hate those motors that, for emission purposes and especially at lower revs, hang onto their revs somewhat when up-changing, which causes a jerky surge if you release the clutch 'too quickly' and not deliberately slip it every time it is re-engaged. In other words the engine does not immediately return towards idle-speed during the upshift, which effectively doesn't allow you to match the revs for a smooth upshift. In personal experience the Opel (Holden) Astra 1.8 petrol is a good example of this unpleasant trait