GM anxious to test the Corvette ZR1 around Nurburgring

[culver]

The German industry is a very keen user of Road America and Suzuka

Not sure what you are implying

[henk4]

Not sure what you are implying

in general the German industry is setting the benchmarks..and they do that on their hometurf. (For Ferrari you will see only Fiorano times, they don't bother to go to Germany much). So if other foreign companies want to regain bragging rights they have to meet the Germans there. I don't think a mid-ohio or a fuji laptime will give a real opportunity for comparison.

[culver]

From a marketing point of view no, from a good track to work on car setup, yes. I would suspect that Porsche, Ferrari and others actually do most of their real setup work on tracks other than the ring. Most likely use private test facilities with areas specifically designed to test various aspects of vehicle handling. The US has plenty of good places to test cars. Heck, you do see the Germans and Japanese testing cars in the us because we have things like a good desert proving ground.

[kingofthering]

Another dummy statement. Chevrolet has their own test track to tune their cars so they don't need to fly across the world to "tune" at the Ring. Don't be foolish, Nissan's time wasn't just a "product of normal developement"...Nissan tuned their car to achieve the FASTEST TIME POSSIBLE AT THE RING. If anything, NISSAN'S RING TIMES should be "beyond the ability of the production car" because no one aside from Nissan knows if the suspension settings for those RING GTRs have the same settings as the production vehicles.

Yes. Nissan tuned the GT-R and spent god-knows how many millions of dollars only to say "Hmm... let's just throw our results away!"

Why would they run the Nuerburgring, set up the car for the Nuerburgring, and install new settings on the production cars?

Even GM considers the Nuerburgring to be important for testing. Why else do you think they built a mini-replica of it? To drive home the point, one of GM's testers said that nothing could replace actual 'ring testing or replicate the experience.

[henk4]

For most, the ring is just there for bragging rights.

I am sure you did not have the thread title in mind when you wrote this....

[Matra et Alpine]

I've been surprised that so far nobody has made comment that the GM pitch for the car talked about hp/l !!!
Or do the US copies have that part beeped out to prevent riots in the streets ?

[monaroCountry]

Why would they run the Nuerburgring, set up the car for the Nuerburgring, and install new settings on the production cars?

Even GM considers the Nuerburgring to be important for testing. Why else do you think they built a mini-replica of it? To drive home the point, one of GM's testers said that nothing could replace actual 'ring testing or replicate the experience.

Because believe it or not the ring is NOT the best place to set up a car thats going to be driven on normal roads.

[Matra et Alpine]

Because believe it or not the ring is NOT the best place to set up a car thats going to be driven on normal roads.

on what basis ?

It has unexpected damp patches, bumps and grooves from years of usage, odd curve angles and camber, crests, dips and patches. The problem with manufacturers test tracks is they are engineered to simulate all of those things and at the end of the day you can't beat the real world and at the moment the only place you can push a car to it's ultimate limits on a surface similar to a real road IS the 'ring IN all simlated environs the engineer ultaimtely wants to test the outcome fo the effort on a real world situation.
Hence why despite having environmental chambers used in development adn test, manufacturerse will still take cars to Death Valley and Canada to drive for hundreds of miles in real world hot and cold

I think the point I woudl take from your POV MOnaro, is that usign the 'ring to set up a car for FASTEST lap time isnt' necessarily the settings you woudl want to sell the car with But using the time on the 'ring to determine the compromise points for the final car is a sensible approach.

[monaroCountry]

on what basis ?

It has unexpected damp patches, bumps and grooves from years of usage, odd curve angles and camber, crests, dips and patches. The problem with manufacturers test tracks is they are engineered to simulate all of those things and at the end of the day you can't beat the real world and at the moment the only place you can push a car to it's ultimate limits on a surface similar to a real road IS the 'ring IN all simlated environs the engineer ultaimtely wants to test the outcome fo the effort on a real world situation.
Hence why despite having environmental chambers used in development adn test, manufacturerse will still take cars to Death Valley and Canada to drive for hundreds of miles in real world hot and cold

I think the point I woudl take from your POV MOnaro, is that usign the 'ring to set up a car for FASTEST lap time isnt' necessarily the settings you woudl want to sell the car with But using the time on the 'ring to determine the compromise points for the final car is a sensible approach.

How fast do you drive on normal roads?

Do you encounter large pot holes (or whatever you call them) around the ring?

Would you encounter slippery sandy sections?

etc.......


The only use IMO for the ring is to determine whether the engine can survive a grueling race simulation.

[kingofthering]

How fast do you drive on normal roads?

Do you encounter large pot holes (or whatever you call them) around the ring?

Would you encounter slippery sandy sections?

etc.......


The only use IMO for the ring is to determine whether the engine can survive a grueling race simulation.

Yes and yes.

So... according to your logic, the Corvette and most of the performance cars on the road today must suck because they were seen testing at the Nuerburgring.

[Matra et Alpine]

How fast do you drive on normal roads?

Let's just say "spirited".
Enough to use the difference in suspension setup that ProDrive did to the RX-8
Enough to always have had my cars with adjustable shocks/springs to allow me to tweak for the circumstances.

Do you encounter large pot holes (or whatever you call them) around the ring?

Yes. Well maybe not New York "lose a car in 'em" size

Would you encounter slippery sandy sections?

Not a lot of sand around
You do get gravel, dirt from other cars dragging it on and from rainstorms.
WOrse though you get leaves and damp patches under the closest trees

etc.......

yes

The only use IMO for the ring is to determine whether the engine can survive a grueling race simulation.

Confirming setup.

[monaroCountry]

Yes and yes.

So... according to your logic, the Corvette and most of the performance cars on the road today must suck because they were seen testing at the Nuerburgring.

Not necessarily, these cars were also tested in other places. Like ive said before, the ring is only good for promoting the vehicle.

[culver]

Yes and yes.

So... according to your logic, the Corvette and most of the performance cars on the road today must suck because they were seen testing at the Nuerburgring.

You need to go back to logic class. That isn't even close to a correct logical deduction.

[kingofthering]

You need to go back to logic class. That isn't even close to a correct logical deduction.

It seems that the road to finals has left me with logic board failure.

[kingofthering]

Not necessarily, these cars were also tested in other places. Like ive said before, the ring is only good for promoting the vehicle.

Not 100% true, even GM said it was important and couldn't be replaced. But yeah, it's become a bit of a mine's smaller than yours contest.