IRL/Champ car reach deal?

[bruxell]

More prize money perhaps .. but not necessarily more INCOME

GP teams started to contest it because Chapman realised that the rear engine layout of his new cars were very competitive against the behemoth front enged indy cars of the day.

Have you got a source for how much appearance money was back then ?
"relatively recently" ? What do you think is "recetn" -- it's been world dominant motorsport for 35- 40 years !!

Ok, sorry if my spelling offended, I’m doing this at work between horrible, horrible fits of transcription. Sometimes I just don’t have the time to check before I post.

I don’t have the information in front of me no, do you? Never the less, I do remember reading in several books that the reason Chapman went to Indy in the first place wasn’t simply that he thought he could win, but that development of the 25 and 33 GP cars was taking up most of the company’s resources, and Indy offered a lucrative, and relatively simple way to make a lot of money. Remember, GP racing back then was expensive, but even adjust for inflation it was small potatoes compared to today. I go and see if I can find any exact figures, but don’t pretend that F1 was as big in the 60s through the early 80s as it is today. Indy cars used to be a huge and very healthy series, and the Indy 500 was one of the most watched races in the world. So I stand by my statement, Indy cars used to rival F1 for worldwide audience unless you actively exclude the US audience. And it used to offer better prize money than GP racing.

[ScionDriver]

I have enjoyed watching Indy on the road courses and Champ Car too but CC was hard to find on TV the last few years it seemed. Any way, hopefully with the merger we will see more road courses and better racing and maybe down the road an alternative to F1.

[fpv_gtho]

If a deal has finally been signed, it will be more of an assimilation by IRL than a merger with Champ Car. The CCWS teams will get free cars and engines, as well as some money of Tony George. Long Beach, Edmonton and Surfers Paradise will be added to the IRL calender but everything else will remain as is currently with IRL. They'll need a few years though just with the higher grids before they can worry about improving their car/engine or signing different races.

[kingofthering]

Meh, let them run in separate classes. It worked for Porsche.

[Kitdy]

It's official, Champ Car and Indy have reunited.

[Quiggs]

So now 12 people will watch CART/IRL instead of 6 for each.

[ringle]

This new entity will propbably gradually become more popular over the next five years or so. Seeing as how F1 may never return to the USA (Bernie clearly states F1 does not need the US) this will be the next best alternative to NASCAR for live racing in the US. I believe they will have to find a mix of Road/Street/Oval courses to be successful though. The powers controlling F1 are very arrogant and may just piss off enough people around the world (Australia, Briton, Spain, to name a few), that this may be a real alternative if the new IRL go into markets abroad.

[Kitdy]

Tthis will be the next best alternative to NASCAR for live racing in the US.

What about the ALMS?

[fpv_gtho]

It would be best for the IRL to concentrate on the US, and only keep any overseas rounds that have the history/following. One area where Champ Car was failing was by trying to become a World Series and chasing rounds through Europe/Asia.

[Matra et Alpine]

Ok, sorry if my spelling offended, I’m doing this at work between horrible, horrible fits of transcription. Sometimes I just don’t have the time to check before I post.

erm ... that was MY spelling error
I was trying to find out what you meant timewise by relateively recent.
SOme of those with longer lives have different intepretation

I don’t have the information in front of me no, do you?

Not the detials.
But it was Dan Gurney who persuaded Chapman to come to the US Indy.
It wasnt' the money that attracted Colin to look, but certainly the dearth of decent compeition and the size of the purse closed the deal

Remember, GP racing back then was expensive, but even adjust for inflation it was small potatoes compared to today.

Back then it wasnt' very expensive at all -- especially with the wide availability of the Cosworth engine at moderate cost Just look at how many teams started up. See how many teams were mainly "gentlemen" racing. BIG money sponsorship came later - with Lotus mind with the now famous Godl Leaf Team Lotus.

but don’t pretend that F1 was as big in the 60s through the early 80s as it is today.

Motor racing circuit attendance was MUCH higher then than it is now.

So I stand by my statement, Indy cars used to rival F1 for worldwide audience unless you actively exclude the US audience. And it used to offer better prize money than GP racing.

Worldwide audience of Indy cars ?
No way, pretty much NOBODY outside of the US was taking any feeds on the races - radio, TV or film.
I tihnk we may have a smilar "issue" as the Baseball "WOrld Series"

[Kitdy]

Motor racing circuit attendance was MUCH higher then than it is now.

Are you sure?

[Homem de Gelo]

So, in a nutshell, what will happen?
Champ car teams will simply get IRL cars and race in their calendar???

[Matra et Alpine]

Are you sure?

The 1972 Austrian GP, held at the Osterreichring circuit, saw 100,000 spectators
Champ Car: an average of 150,000 per event (latest numbers on Wiki)
NASCAR: Average 186,000 (same source)
2007 Australian Grand Prix held in Melbourne was 301,000 (same source)
WHat were early year figures for Champ ?

Hmmmm, guess my memory was rose-tinted
The brief sample of numbers I found then there's more now.
BUT, that's not reflected in comparions with MotoGP and WSB which regularly attract double the numbers of F1 events
Also, that it "seemed" busier -- thinking that's probably down to circuits being true road circuits and not lined with stadiums and seats for everyone. Squeezing in amongst the trees and on gras banks made it feel a lot busier I guess. However, I've been at SIlverstone where the infield was SOLID with specators and never seen any event even come near to squeezing that many in.


on the financial part and why small teams were able to compete .....
In 1961 a Cooper Fl chassis, from the team that had won the previous year's World Championship, sold for £4,500 with a Coventry-Climax engine costing £1,200 and it was estimated that anyone could go Fl racing for a mere £65,550 (Campbell, 1996). Translated into today's figures, if such a thing were possible, that would mean being able to buy a chassis for £55,000 and a Renault engine for £15,000 and going Fl racing for £800,000.

[Kitdy]

The 1972 Austrian GP, held at the Osterreichring circuit, saw 100,000 spectators
Champ Car: an average of 150,000 per event (latest numbers on Wiki)
NASCAR: Average 186,000 (same source)
2007 Australian Grand Prix held in Melbourne was 301,000 (same source)
WHat were early year figures for Champ ?

Hmmmm, guess my memory was rose-tinted
The brief sample of numbers I found then there's more now.
BUT, that's not reflected in comparions with MotoGP and WSB which regularly attract double the numbers of F1 events
Also, that it "seemed" busier -- thinking that's probably down to circuits being true road circuits and not lined with stadiums and seats for everyone. Squeezing in amongst the trees and on gras banks made it feel a lot busier I guess. However, I've been at SIlverstone where the infield was SOLID with specators and never seen any event even come near to squeezing that many in.


on the financial part and why small teams were able to compete .....
In 1961 a Cooper Fl chassis, from the team that had won the previous year's World Championship, sold for £4,500 with a Coventry-Climax engine costing £1,200 and it was estimated that anyone could go Fl racing for a mere £65,550 (Campbell, 1996). Translated into today's figures, if such a thing were possible, that would mean being able to buy a chassis for £55,000 and a Renault engine for £15,000 and going Fl racing for £800,000.

Moto GP and WSB get more than F1? Are you sure?

As for attendance, I had a feeling modern F1 was more attended - I would predict there is simply more infrastructure for the circuits these days - I know in the Canadian GP's case Mosport is simply incapable of holding the 100,000 or so that show up for the CGP at the CGV in Montreal.

The relative increase in the price of racing is quit interesting to note - the introduction of large TV audiences, sponsorship, and manufacturers has really changed F1.

Some info:

grandprixcities - motorsport attendance figures - worldwide - motorsport travel guide with hotels near the venues speedway, nearest airport and event tickets

120,000 average attendance at each MotoGP. | Crash.Net | Find Articles at BNET.com

List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[fpv_gtho]

So, in a nutshell, what will happen?
Champ car teams will simply get IRL cars and race in their calendar???

The IRL calender will also have Long Beach and Edmonton added to the championship and Surfers Paradise as a non-championship race. The Champ Car teams get free engines and cars, as well as $1.2m per car from Tony George. Most of the finer details dont appear to be settled yet.