Top Gear 2008

[Fleet 500]

Nope, there are many cars I have made judgements on that I have never driven or seen. You have too. So does basically everyone on this site. What is your point? Citroen does not make sports cars or sporty cars - these are the cars that excite me and I consider fun to drive.

Maybe your definition of exciting differs from mine.

Nonetheless, I think calling a Citroen "exciting" is a misuse of the word. An F430 is exciting, a Dodge Charger is exciting, an Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale is exciting. A Citroen is not exciting.

I like Citroens if they have a lot of torque. (Do they?)

[henk4]

great way to ruin a thread about TOPGEAR guyS

feel free to delete whatever you want. and we haven't even started on last night's dispute whether Aston Martins were cool, because Wayne Rooney drives one....

[henk4]

In this instance, I think my judgement is acceptable. I consider the main determining factor in automotive coolness looks. I have seen modern Citroens before and can thus pass judgement.

see post 49 where you state that you have not seen them....

[Kitdy]

see post 49 where you state that you have not seen them....

I've seen the modern Citroens, and I have seen the C5, and I believe that ultimately is what we are talking about here, whether the C5 is cool , and whether modern Citroens are cool. I think I'm gonna make a poll for laughs.

Thanks for ignoring the rest of what I said too.

Real mature.

[Cyco]

As for immaturity, if I am immature then what does then I suppose you are as well then my dear friend. How many times have you resorted to name calling people like Fleet, calling them idiots or stupid? Is this adult behaviour? Calling names? Is this gradeschool? You will notice I don't conduct myself in this manner, only calling either you or Matra "old" only for comedic effect - you call Fleet and others to inflict harm or out of frustration - displaying a lack of control of emotions - a problem children have..

Real mature.

Pot, Kettle, Black?

[henk4]

I've seen the modern Citroens, and I have seen the C5, and I believe that ultimately is what we are talking about here, whether the C5 is cool , and whether modern Citroens are cool. I think I'm gonna make a poll for laughs.

Thanks for ignoring the rest of what I said too.

Real mature.

I am trying to get some work done at the same time as I have to address your contributions, that is a difficult combination.
and again, earlier you say you haven't seen them and now you have...must have been a busy night for you.

[jediali]

You'd dismiss it purely based on the fact the it's apparently driven by dicks? Granted some may be but still..

I am a victim of what others think of cars because I am so objectively focused and cant find immediate others around me that will understand my otherwise rational vehicle selection. Ill get an M3 instead then...

[QUOTE=henk4;816607]well I remember the C6 was "cool" but this time he declared "everything big and French" to be "uncool". It was Hammond who managed to move the C5 to the cool spot.[\QUOTE]

Im also surprised he made the new C5 uncool on the basis of its big frencyness, that makes it cool. It would be more uncool because its going to be bought for its value for money (like a skoda) and its image change (i think it should have capitilised on what made the C6 good, not some german imagery)

I know old geezers like you drive them.

not needed Kitdy

Let's just say that I know enough enough about Citroen to know that I am not at all interested in any of their offerings. I also know enough about them to know that "driving fun" was not one of their major design goals.

I like the C6 a lot and respect the C1 but otherwise generally agree. Nothing personal but just my personal expectations of a car I would buy. Citroens make good allrounders and cause very little offense.

does the name Seb Loeb ring a bell?

Skoda make rally cars too ?!? Doesnt mean they are sporty. As for the Loeb C4, this car will sell for its interesting looks and cabin and comfort making it a good citroen but against clio 197s etc the word sporty' needs to be taken with relativity. If you read reviews of this car it is praised for its blend of warm hatch and being a good allrounder, not more performance orientated. I look beyond this and see the 307 chassis (not bad) and think they are limiting themselves. Its a bit like the old astra turbo, loads of power but wheres the speed?

Yeah it appears as though I was wrong, Citroen does have at least 1 current sporty car, the top spec petrol C4 with 174 hp.

But it is also front wheel drive, has not the same heritage/performance of it's WRC road car rivals such as the Imprezza or (formerly Lancer) or upcoming RS Focus.

I also previously stated I am not really interested in hotted-up econoboxes/hot hatches except for exemplary cases like the R32 or Lancer/Imprezza which are regarded as the best, not the C4.

EDIT:

I must admit I was not aware of those cars, but see above, hot hatches aren't that special to me, and I have investigated those cars and find them not good looking and not fast enough for my needs.

I hope you can forgive me for not being intimate with limited run models of a car from a company I am not interested in that makes cars that are not sold here.

A Saxo VTR or AX GTI also fail to excite me - though they would probably be pretty nimble.

hot hathes are primarily a euro thing. If you where interested in hot hatches you would find there is a big market for them here and that the C-segment hatches (focus, golf, astra, megane) are all relatively remarkable cars. The leaders have made big steps with chassis development and engine investment and are reaping the rewards

In this instance, I think my judgement is acceptable. I consider the main determining factor in automotive coolness looks. I have seen modern Citroens before and can thus pass judgement. Similarly, I have seen modern Astons and can pass judgement. I would also not consider this immature if anything it is being ignorant, but as I said, this is based on looks and I know what Citroens look like, and furthermore, I know their rep - family cars and superminis and the like.

As for immaturity, if I am immature then what does then I suppose you are as well then my dear friend. How many times have you resorted to name calling people like Fleet, calling them idiots or stupid? Is this adult behaviour? Calling names? Is this gradeschool? You will notice I don't conduct myself in this manner, only calling either you or Matra "old" only for comedic effect - you call Fleet and others to inflict harm or out of frustration - displaying a lack of control of emotions - a problem children have.

Youve kinda got a point...did I say that out loud?

So I may be immature, but you are older than I am and you are immature as well. Let's all go to the playground and have some fun Pieter, you can go on the swing, and me on the slide.

Fell free to ignore this message - immaturely - instead of addressing it in an adult-like fashion.

Bad end to a good point Kitdy,


Any ways:

top gear episode 2:

evo vs impreza, car magazines being saying that for months but I am still blown away by the evos turn in even if it was slower, big weight gain i guess.

Guests = boring

CLK black - another well thought out article. Driving at 4am is pretty cool. And that merc is quite unique IMO.

stunt = pretty cool, seems bigger budget and that guy is quite brave. James didnt do those sums .

cool wall = ruined

[#1 Mustang Fan]

Pot, Kettle, Black?

No sugar.

[Ferrer]

I've seen the modern Citroens, and I have seen the C5, and I believe that ultimately is what we are talking about here, whether the C5 is cool , and whether modern Citroens are cool. I think I'm gonna make a poll for laughs.

There was no need to insult Citorens.

For the record I don't really like the C5. It looks good, but it's like Citroen is trying to be german and that's wrong. And I don't understand why all don't have the hydropneumatic suspension. They say it's to give a sporty feel. Pure bollocks I say.

And just to stay on topic, I want more May in TG.

[Kitdy]

not needed Kitdy


Bad end to a good point Kitdy

For these two tidbits, I called him an old man for jokes - I call Matra an old man as well frequently on MSN - I maybe overstepped my bounds but meh.

As for the last bit, yeah it was a bit petty and maybe I am immature for doing it but hey, still not as bad as calling someone stupid.

[Kitdy]

There was no need to insult Citorens.

Where did I insult them? I called them boring to me.

[Ferrer]

Where did I insult them? I called them boring to me.

Here:

I've seen the modern Citroens, and I have seen the C5, and I believe that ultimately is what we are talking about here, whether the C5 is cool , and whether modern Citroens are cool. I think I'm gonna make a poll for laughs.

[Kitdy]

see post 49 where you state that you have not seen them....

I am trying to get some work done at the same time as I have to address your contributions, that is a difficult combination.
and again, earlier you say you haven't seen them and now you have...must have been a busy night for you.

I reread post 49 and I don't see where I said that - I have seen all the modern Citroens as of about two years ago when I read Top Gear Magazine 2 and they had the supplement with the new car buying guide. The Citroen we are most concerned with, the C5 I am already familiar with however as I looked it up when I learned you had bought it, and I have seen the C4 around in print ads in European magazines.

Yes, I did go look at all the Citroens again tonight to reverify this however.

Pot, Kettle, Black?

At least I ain't calling names - it surely ain't the most mature thing, but there is a difference for calling someone out and calling someone stupid and not even dignifying them with a response.

[jediali]

maybe I am immature for doing it but hey, still not as bad as calling someone stupid.

Its good to admit this but you shouldnt really have double standards. As I am growing up I am finding less to chat about on these forums because I feel beyond replying to many silly feuds like this. If for example someone said to me my car brand was something it was, I would agree rationally and move on, none of this pseudo machoness that goes on here - that really dissapoints me and regardless of any of your shortfalls Kitdy we are hardly getting people onto the forum by beating folks like you to a pulp as soon as they disagree with fairly legitamate reasoning, you all know how subjective car images are and we should all be aware of this before flaming people. Most other forums are much less aggressive!

[Kitdy]

Its good to admit this but you shouldnt really have double standards. As I am growing up I am finding less to chat about on these forums because I feel beyond replying to many silly feuds like this. If for example someone said to me my car brand was something it was, I would agree rationally and move on, none of this pseudo machoness that goes on here - that really dissapoints me and regardless of any of your shortfalls Kitdy we are hardly getting people onto the forum by beating folks like you to a pulp as soon as they disagree with fairly legitamate reasoning, you all know how subjective car images are and we should all be aware of this before flaming people. Most other forums are much less aggressive!

What legitimate reasoning did I disagree with here?

I don't know if the problem with UCP is the bickering, if anything it makes crap around here actually interesting briefly.