Is BMW "THE" premium small sedan.

[Ferrer]

Many Current Comparisons between vehicles (which, I assume, would be the E92 or indeed E90 variant) give it to the Audi because while the BMW may have the slightly more pure driving experience, something has been lost in translation from screamer Straight 6 to what has been described as an engine not entirely suited to the character of the vehicle.

And by that I presume they mean it can actually cruise in relative comfort. either way, not a horrible thing

The Audi gives the assured road holding that many consumers demand, still performs 9/10ths of the driving fun, and isn't lugged with having to carry around the stigma of the M badge - both a blessing & a curse.

I've driven the current M3 saloon and I can tell you that it is a brilliant car. The engine particularly is a masterpiece and the sound track amazing. It maybe is the ultimate sports saloon.

I have driven too a Z4M Coupé and I'll tell you that personally despite being less powerful I prefer the straight six powerplant. It feels so BMW if you know what I mean.

I know that rear wheel drive doesn't necessarily make for a good car and that there are some front wheel drive cars that are very good drivers cars. I know, I used to drive one and still absolutely love it.

However a good, properly set rear whel drive car, and since you have experience with BMWs you know they are such cars, has that little something that makes it feel so much better than the best of the front drivers. It feels connected, it feels right. Somewhat you know that every little part is working to ensure the handling is brilliant.

So if you are really serious about making a proper drivers car rear wheel drive is the only way to go. No matter how much work it's put through a front or a four wheel drive car it will still be fundamentally flawed. And this can be experienced wheter you buy the 318i or the M3.

[Kooper]

From what I've read, it sounds like the RS4 outruns the M3 to 100 by a couple of tenths and does the kilometer sprint a bit quicker too. SA Car actually went as far as taking the M3 to a drag strip (I think) where the M3 managed a time a bit closer to the RS4, could've beaten in by one or two hundredths, can't remember.
The M3 however turned out a little faster around both Kyalami and Killarney, but that could be put down to driver ability.

It sounds like the Audi will give you most of the spills of the M3, but not quite the smile factor you can get in the M3. In the end, most of the journos were divided between the M3 being the more focused car (and therefore their choice), or being too focused and too tiring (and therefore not their choice).

Speaking of the M3, I do think BMW fumbled the ball just a bit. They could've and should've made it better than it is. Don't get me wrong, the engine is impressive as is, but where is the direct fuel injection? Dry sump lubrication? I think they should've at least extracted 335kW from it in standard guise to really grab attention. And why wasn't the DCT introduced when the E92 M3 was introduced?
And the looks, sure it's understated. But should an M3 be that understated? I remember when the E36 M3 came out, a lot of people were complaining that it didn't look special enough, which BMW tried to rectify with the E46 (mostly successfully in my opinion). Then they brought out E90/ 92, and if someone didn't point out I was walking right past one the other day I would've mistook it for a dead-standard 325Ci...
Look at the RS4 by comparison. No one can mistake that for a 1.8, or even a 3.2 quattro.

And why oh why do they make the front bumpers on both the M3 and M6 look like it does at the moment? It looks like someone forgot to extend the splitters. And the back bumpers, what are the holes for? For heat extraction maybe? Can't be for downforce because there's nothing but exhaust directly behind it.

I don't know. BMW needs to do some work, they may still be in the lead with the 3, but if they continue to lose ground at the pace they are at the moment it won't be long now before they have to start catching up.

[NSXType-R]

I actually think the M3 is pretty well styled. It could have been much gaudier like the M5, but they held back, which is amazing considering the rate at which the styling for BMWs have been nosediving.

But somehow, I tend to like the RS4 better. No idea why. Maybe it's the power.

I'm sure both are well performing cars. I just like the AWD-ness of it. It's a rich man's Subaru Impreza STI or Evolution X.

[clutch-monkey]

Compared to what's available in Australia, maybe...but compared to what else is available in Europe, the 3-Series IS a sporty saloon at the forefront of championing the RWD advantage.

What I'd like in Europe is a greater selection of "normal" RWD cars (rivals to BMWs), which is why I can't wait for the Infiniti brand to be launched here. Evo reviewed the G37S ( Infiniti G37S | evo Car Reviews | Car Reviews | evo ) and seemed to like it.

Also, I've repeatedly said this, but Alfa's rumoured RWD 159 successor sounds extremely promising.

What if you like to drive but you need practicality and can only afford one car?

Even the most basic 318i offers a driving experience that all of their front or four wheel drive rivals can't really match. It's not about the speed, it's about the feel. In my opinion that qualifies it as a sports saloon.

that's what i mean. i think stuff like RWD diesels are a good idea because of the torque, but my point is: people who actually care about RWD and sporting pretensions wouldn't be getting a 318i (or that older 316ti ? lol) in a lot of cases.
they'd be saving up for a sportier model, or buy a better model second hand, in general terms. the majority of people who buy 318's don't care about and are probably unaware of what RWD is.
in which case, given the limitations of theese basic 3 series models, a top model subaru liberty or something similar would give a better drive, and makes a better case for itself than buying the 318 purely for the rwd feel, which is worth something, but with the 318's engine merely becomes poor packaging?
RWD just doesn't make or break the deal when cross shopping against the 3 series.

I actually think the M3 is pretty well styled. It could have been much gaudier like the M5, but they held back, which is amazing considering the rate at which the styling for BMWs have been nosediving. .

i agree, best looking bmw in quite a while.

[Clivey]

that's what i mean. i think stuff like RWD diesels are a good idea because of the torque, but my point is: people who actually care about RWD and sporting pretensions wouldn't be getting a 318i (or that older 316ti ? lol) in a lot of cases.
they'd be saving up for a sportier model, or buy a better model second hand, in general terms. the majority of people who buy 318's don't care about and are probably unaware of what RWD is.
in which case, given the limitations of theese basic 3 series models, a top model subaru liberty or something similar would give a better drive, and makes a better case for itself than buying the 318 purely for the rwd feel, which is worth something, but with the 318's engine merely becomes poor packaging?
RWD just doesn't make or break the deal when cross shopping against the 3 series.

Things are obviously quite different in Australia...in Europe, fuel prices may dictate that an enthusiast can only afford to run one of the more fuel efficient models in the range. I know that'll be the case if I decide to buy one, and it's probably the reason why Albert has the 118d rather than a 130i.

Of course we'd all like to be driving around in gazillion-horsepower hotrods, but reality isn't quite like that. This is why the balance, handling and general feel of a well-judged RWD chassis makes all the difference to us: Even if we can't afford to run 6 or 8-cylinder cars, we can still enjoy driving that way!

[clutch-monkey]

Things are obviously quite different in Australia...in Europe, fuel prices may dictate that an enthusiast can only afford to run one of the more fuel efficient models in the range.

yes, which is why any 1 series makes more sense than the 3 series; just by being smaller and lighter it makes more sense with the same range of engines. the requirements of a saloon are better fulfilled by an accord or something similar, possibly the diesel engined 3 series (or a decent sized hot hatch?). imo, anyway.
i do agree that absence of power lets you focus on chassis; but i (personally) don't feel that a car like the 318 or similar is able to make up for it's lack of sportiness in the engine department, with it's chassis, given the alternatives.

[Ferrer]

yes, which is why any 1 series makes more sense than the 3 series; just by being smaller and lighter it makes more sense with the same range of engines. the requirements of a saloon are better fulfilled by an accord or something similar, possibly the diesel engined 3 series (or a decent sized hot hatch?). imo, anyway.
i do agree that absence of power lets you focus on chassis; but i (personally) don't feel that a car like the 318 or similar is able to make up for it's lack of sportiness in the engine department, with it's chassis, given the alternatives.

What if you have kids or something?

I agree that most of the 318is are bought because of the badge, especially those with stupid M Packs and M badges. Well probably most BMWs are bought for the badge.

But, if you are a car enthusiast you'll notice the difference between the 318i and any other similarly sized front wheel drive saloon. If I was in the market for such a car I'd buy the 318i before a similarly powered Accord or Laguna.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

You'd hardly call a Laguna an enthusiasts vehicle though.

Perhaps a fairer comparison would be a Saab or Alfa Romeo.

[Ferrer]

You'd hardly call a Laguna an enthusiasts vehicle though.

Perhaps a fairer comparison would be a Saab or Alfa Romeo.

Still as far as the driving experience is concerned the BMW will still trump them.

About time Alfa gets its act together and goes back to rear wheel drive.

[clutch-monkey]

What if you have kids or something?

i prefer not to think about disastrous consequences but i do see your point on the BMW as an all rounder there.

edit: actually kids could fit in the back on an S15 or an integra type R, surely.. so all is not lost

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Still as far as the driving experience is concerned the BMW will still trump them.

About time Alfa gets its act together and goes back to rear wheel drive.

For us dedicated driving enthusiasts, thats a big concern.

but Price, features and family can affect these things.

[Clivey]

Still as far as the driving experience is concerned the BMW will still trump them.

About time Alfa gets its act together and goes back to rear wheel drive.

My thoughts exactly! Shame about this then!:PistonHeads Headlines

That artists' impression doesn't even look as good as a 159 (which I think is a beautiful car), so if it isn't even RWD either, it's going to flop, surely!?

Have to say though Albert, you're on top-form with your comments in this thread. It's as if you're taking the words right out of my mouth!

[Ferrer]

For us dedicated driving enthusiasts, thats a big concern.

but Price, features and family can affect these things.

You are right. But this is a car forum isn't it?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Lol. very true.

Please remember I do currently drive a Volvo

[Ferrer]

My thoughts exactly! Shame about this then!:PistonHeads Headlines

That artists' impression doesn't even look as good as a 159 (which I think is a beautiful car), so if it isn't even RWD either, it's going to flop, surely!?

Have to say though Albert, you're on top-form with your comments in this thread. It's as if you're taking the words right out of my mouth!

Well the problem is that Alfa's sales don't generate enough of a volume to make a dedicated, bespoke rear wheel drive platform viable for the moment. Also bear in mind that despite not being quite as bad as they were 5 years ago, FGA are still pretty broke.

So I guess we'll have to put uo with another generation of very pretty (don't worry about the photoshop) but slightly flawed Alfa Romeos.

By the way the first "mainstream" rear wheel drive Alfa Romeo will be the 166 replacement. However it's been set back so many times that no one really knows when will they release it. But maybe in 2010.