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  1. #1
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    Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring

    Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring

    30 September 2008
    Paul Gover


    Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

    Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

    It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

    "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

    "For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

    He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

    Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

    He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

    "We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

    Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

    But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

    The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

    Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

    "The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

    "It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

    In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

    "For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.
    - Herald Sun




    Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring | carsguide.com.au
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  2. #2
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    Ah yeah an experienced chassis engineer is as fast as a former F1 driver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen View Post
    Ah yeah an experienced chassis engineer is as fast as a former F1 driver.
    Don't forget... Experienced in the Nurburgring!

    This puzles me... experienced at what in the nurburgring? painting the track? shouting at cars... hummm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruim20 View Post
    Don't forget... Experienced in the Nurburgring!

    This puzles me... experienced at what in the nurburgring? painting the track? shouting at cars... hummm...
    IIRC correctly the ZR1 driver was an engineer too
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    IIRC correctly the ZR1 driver was an engineer too
    I have a lot of doubts on how a development engineer get's to race a car like that, but really, who the hell cares, specialy me that will never have the money to buy one of theese.
    "Religious belief is the “path of least resistance”, says Boyer, while disbelief requires effort."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    Considering also that one of the bigger Nurburgring driving schools is still using the old Alfa Romeo 75....
    #
    Because the 75 is the last of the great RWD cars available that is NOT BMW
    Quote Originally Posted by ruim20 View Post
    This puzles me... experienced at what in the nurburgring? painting the track? shouting at cars... hummm...
    Chassis engineers and test drivers are now the most knowledgable folks around for adjusting chassis/suspension/setup on a car.
    Drivers have become just that and reliant on computer telemetry to get setups sorted by engineers trawling the captured data !
    I'd put a chassis engineer with thousands of laps on the 'Ring ahead of most of the current nancy-boy F1 prima donnas
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4 View Post
    is it so hard to swallow that Nissan may have build a damn good car? Where is the open mind these days. Is image everything?
    And if you wonder why a Radical or a Donkervoort has been faster than all the cars you listed, although they both have less horsepower, than you may start to realise that HP is not everything to make a car going fast.
    well, those weight around a third of the GT-R

    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    #
    Because the 75 is the last of the great RWD cars available that is NOT BMW
    what I emant is that you can have fun and and involving drive even without braking the 8 minutes (or even 9...10..) barrier.

    btw, did the Veyron seriously lapped?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    well, those weight around a third of the GT-R
    which was my point. HP is not everything. (GTR faster than a Veyron...must be cheating...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    #Chassis engineers and test drivers are now the most knowledgable folks around for adjusting chassis/suspension/setup on a car.
    Drivers have become just that and reliant on computer telemetry to get setups sorted by engineers trawling the captured data !
    I'd put a chassis engineer with thousands of laps on the 'Ring ahead of most of the current nancy-boy F1 prima donnas
    I guess sarcasm in the internetz really goes out the window
    "Religious belief is the “path of least resistance”, says Boyer, while disbelief requires effort."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post

    Chassis engineers and test drivers are now the most knowledgable folks around for adjusting chassis/suspension/setup on a car.
    Drivers have become just that and reliant on computer telemetry to get setups sorted by engineers trawling the captured data !
    I'd put a chassis engineer with thousands of laps on the 'Ring ahead of most of the current nancy-boy F1 prima donnas
    This.

    I'll join in with everyone complaining about gt-r threads but nissan shouldn't inflate numbers by about 20 seconds either.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockefella View Post
    This.

    I'll join in with everyone complaining about gt-r threads but nissan shouldn't inflate numbers by about 20 seconds either.
    But at this very point in time there no actual proof past he-said she-said.

    We just have to sit tight the onus is on Nissan to prove it now just chill and let them figure it out jeeze its not like its effecting your dayly lives (unless your monarocountry whos so obviously thretaned by it he trolls forums to slander it)
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  12. #12
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    another hater lol.
    But in saying that,there has been a lot of doubt over the Nurburgring times of the GTR.
    Someone just damn get proper video footage of the damn thing on the track and get this matter settled once and for all!

  13. #13
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    Nürburgring lap times are as interesting to me as watching paint dry.

    So what if they cheated. It remains an amazing showcase of technology and one hell of a car.
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  14. #14
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    in a recent test issued by Motor Trend (October 2008) the GTR went over 2 seconds faster around Laguna Seca than the 911 Turbo. Both have 480 BHP and the Nissan weighs in over 300 lbs more. I am sure we only have to wait for Porsche to make a complaint here as well.....
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wouter Melissen View Post
    Ah yeah an experienced chassis engineer is as fast as a former F1 driver.
    Or a former twice World Rally champion...
    Quote Originally Posted by fisetdavid26 View Post
    Nürburgring lap times are as interesting to me as watching paint dry.
    x2.
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