Electric Porsche 911 by Ruf

[NicFromLA]

Hydrogen powered ICEs are also an option for when we run out of petrol.

That works too. And, if someone where to create the infrastructure for hydrogen refueling stations, something BMW could start selling next month.

[Wouter Melissen]

Isn't hydrogen very energy inefficient to make and doesn't require extraordinary large fuel tanks to get a proper range?

[digitalcraft]

Isn't hydrogen very energy inefficient to make and doesn't require extraordinary large fuel tanks to get a proper range?

Its less efficient to produce than gasoline, thanks for a good 100 years refinement of gasoline production. Hydrogen would become efficient given time, but I don't know if it'll get that time.

And no, you don't need a gynormous tank. It has quite a bit of energy per volume.

[teatako]

Every been near a car running on methanol? It's not fun at all.

well, yes, but as you said yourself, development is key. I need a sauce on this, but I think i heard somewhere that the earliest forms of cars could run on teh methanolz, back when it was legal*. Do remember, weed was originally outlawed because of the pressure from DuPont, who had just come up with their synthetic fibers and that has no doubt discouraged serious research and development.

EDIT: when weed was legal*

[wwgkd]

Have you ever driven one?

I have. Sound sucks. Can't rev the engine. Neither one was all that exciting to drive. I guess neither was a RUF, but still. Since electric engines use more oil (at least in the US where we're so afraid of nuclear power and our power plants are predominantly oil powered) I don't see the point. I have seen a couple of exciting hybrids (hemi hybrid) but electric still doesn't do it for me.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Isn't hydrogen very energy inefficient to make and doesn't require extraordinary large fuel tanks to get a proper range?

And no, you don't need a gynormous tank. It has quite a bit of energy per volume.

At the moment you do need big tanks. That Hydrogen 7 series has ~70 litre tank IIRC that gets it all of 200ish km, so not very fuel efficent. Compressing it into liquid form for storage in a tank and burning a car motor makes it lose energy.

well, yes, but as you said yourself, development is key. I need a sauce on this, but I think i heard somewhere that the earliest forms of cars could run on teh methanolz, back when it was legal*. Do remember, weed was originally outlawed because of the pressure from DuPont, who had just come up with their synthetic fibers and that has no doubt discouraged serious research and development.

EDIT: when weed was legal*

The only development would be into massive exhaust and emission control system to stop all the nasties coming out the pipes so everyone you drive past doesn't end up with burning eyes, noses and throats.

[NSXType-R]

At the moment you do need big tanks. That Hydrogen 7 series has ~70 litre tank IIRC that gets it all of 200ish km, so not very fuel efficent. Compressing it into liquid form for storage in a tank and burning a car motor makes it lose energy.



The only development would be into massive exhaust and emission control system to stop all the nasties coming out the pipes so everyone you drive past doesn't end up with burning eyes, noses and throats.

What's wrong with methanol?

I'm more of a hydrogen person. You really can't run out of hydrogen, and unless we all switch to nuclear power, electricity for cars is not as clean as you want it too. Just because it runs on electricity, it doesn't mean that the electricity was produced cleanly, as is the case here in America. Most of our power comes from coal. But if a large majority is created from solar or wind or wave power, I wouldn't mind. What's nice about electricity is that the infrastructure is here already though.

[MRR]

Bio diesel; Bio diesel made from grease and other bio sourced waste products. I prefer gasoline (aka petrol), but the BMW, Audi and Alfa-Romeo turbo-diesels I've driven have been absolutely fantastic.

There is simply not enough bio-waste to produce enough diesel to displace even current petro-diesel consumption let alone all vehicles. However genetically modified bacteria/algae could produce any hydrocarbon fuel or chemical (including synthetic or bio-gasoline) in copious quantities (in theory it may be able to displace all petroleum usage). We'll no doubt see in the next two or so decades what will become the most cost competitive but if they can produce synthetic petroleum from non-crude-oil sources than the ICE will no doubt be around for much longer than many of us may currently believe.

[MRR]

I have. Sound sucks. Can't rev the engine. Neither one was all that exciting to drive. I guess neither was a RUF, but still. Since electric engines use more oil (at least in the US where we're so afraid of nuclear power and our power plants are predominantly oil powered) I don't see the point. I have seen a couple of exciting hybrids (hemi hybrid) but electric still doesn't do it for me.

That's incorrect. Only 1.2-1.6% of US electricity is generated from petroleum. The vast majority is generated from coal and natural gas.

[2ndclasscitizen]

What's wrong with methanol?

Makes your eyes, nose and throat burn. Can also set off some allergic reactions.

[LeonOfTheDead]

And no, you don't need a gynormous tank. It has quite a bit of energy per volume.

as 2CC pointed out, the volume of the tank is quite big considering the low mileage you get with it, and then the size of the tank itself is bigger than a tank for petrol of the same internal size because of the bigger pressure you need to stock the hydrogen in a liquid form. another problem is that, in order to keep under control that pressure, the tank is continuously loosing hydrogen, and in 3-4 days it would be completely emty even without using the car

I have. Sound sucks. Can't rev the engine. Neither one was all that exciting to drive. I guess neither was a RUF, but still. Since electric engines use more oil (at least in the US where we're so afraid of nuclear power and our power plants are predominantly oil powered) I don't see the point. I have seen a couple of exciting hybrids (hemi hybrid) but electric still doesn't do it for me.

Plants for the production of energy have a 40/60% efficiency, engine motors have an average 20% efficiency. 30% if talking about diesel engines.
So it does make sense.

[teatako]

The only development would be into massive exhaust and emission control system to stop all the nasties coming out the pipes so everyone you drive past doesn't end up with burning eyes, noses and throats.

that used to happen with diesel, too. and gas...

[NicFromLA]

There is simply not enough bio-waste to produce enough diesel to displace even current petro-diesel consumption let alone all vehicles. However genetically modified bacteria/algae could produce any hydrocarbon fuel or chemical (including synthetic or bio-gasoline) in copious quantities (in theory it may be able to displace all petroleum usage). We'll no doubt see in the next two or so decades what will become the most cost competitive but if they can produce synthetic petroleum from non-crude-oil sources than the ICE will no doubt be around for much longer than many of us may currently believe.

By "waste products" I meant the waste product of bacteria/algae which is, as I understand, where the biodiesel will come from.