GM sets end of road for Swedish brand Saab

[NSXType-R]

Wow, sucks for Saab.

[Kitdy]

Why? A different approach may have solved all or part of Saab's problems. It also, in anycase, would've given Saab hope, which is the last thing to be lost. Dead doesn't solve anything. Saab, like many other car manufacturers, has suffered in the last years. But doesn't mean we should just give up, at least in my opinion.

Well Saab being sold to Spyker or Koenigsegg coulda bankrupted the parent companies.

That wouldn't have been good. I don't think that Saab would have had enough time left on their clock to turn around public perception of them before whoever owned them decided to shut them down or they went bankrupt.

Don't throw good money over bad money.

Saab was a poison pill for anyone that woulda bought them, just like Chrysler may well be for Fiat.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Well Saab being sold to Spyker or Koenigsegg coulda bankrupted the parent companies.

That wouldn't have been good. I don't think that Saab would have had enough time left on their clock to turn around public perception of them before whoever owned them decided to shut them down or they went bankrupt.

Don't throw good money over bad money.

Saab was a poison pill for anyone that woulda bought them, just like Chrysler may well be for Fiat.

Except that Chrysler was and still is for free.

[G35COUPE]

Funny, Ford seemed to have done a good job fixing Mazda. BMW is generally really well run but they did a miserable job with Rover and Mercedes all but killed Chrysler. Unlike SAAB, Chrysler was fairly healthy before the Germans invaded. Perhaps you jumped too far with that conclusion.

But if you remember, Chrysler was always on the edge of collapse as far back as the early 80s. My opinion is that Chrysler gained more from Daimler Benz than Daimler Benz would ever have dreamed of gaining from Chrysler. Chrysler nearly sucked the life out of Daimler Benz. During that period when Daimler Benz owned Chrysler, Benz suffered almost irreparable quality and reputational issues, as well as a degenerating auto design--their autos got uglier. Thats how bad Chrysler nearly ruined Daimler Benz as a company. I call the Chrysler period, the lost years for Daimler Benz. In fact, during that period, BMW which has always been the fiercest competitor of Daimler Benz, produced better and more sophisticated performance cars than Daimler Benz.

BMW was left unchallenged during those lost Chrysler years of Daimler Benz. It was also that period that allowed Infiniti to replace Daimler Benz as the true competitor of BMW. Infiniti made BMW work hard during that period. And BMW was constantly on the edge because they knew Infiniti was going to eath their lunch if they blinked for a moment. Daimler Benz was no where to be found in the race for better cars during this period. I would argue that Daimler Benz's foray into Chrysler allowed cars like the Nissan 350z and Infiniti G-35/M-35 or M45/ FX 35 and FX 45 to flourish exceedingly well. Without Infiniti, the only true choice out there for performance and luxury at the same time, were BMW cars. Of course, this story is limited to the USA.

[culver]

Chrysler was making a nice profit at the time they paired up with Mercedes. Remember that at the time the two companies paired up Chrysler's profits per car were the same as Mercedes yet, excepting the Viper, the most expensive Chrysler was about the same price as the cheapest Mercedes. This was the height of the SUV boom and Chrysler was doing great. Really all Chrysler needed at the time was a bit more money for interiors and to address some quality issues.

I'm not sure you are right that Chrysler gained more than Mercedes in the pairing. Chrysler actually had a lot that they could have offered but Mercedes was too arrogant to see it. However, Mercedes did get a lot of cash that Chrysler had in the banks. Chrysler got one and a half left over platforms. The half, ie the platform under the 300, was well into the design phase before Mercedes entered the picture. Mercedes had the car redesigned to use their left over E-class parts. That might have been a wise move except that it delayed the launch of the car thus robbing Chrysler of a year or two of sales before gas prices spiked and killed the 300's shine.

It's hard to say if the Mercedes quality problems were due to Chrysler or not. You have to remember what was happening at the time. Historically Mercedes were expensive to build because they were over engineered and quality was double and triple checked. Lexus and Infinity came out less than ten years prior and shocked the luxury car world by producing cars that could compete with Mercedes yet cost far less. Mercedes had to figure out how to compete in a more competitive luxury car market while also figuring out how to cut costs. It's not easy to do that and Mercedes quality suffered as they worked their way through that period. Yes, their involvement with Chrysler didn't help but Chrysler wasn't likely to have caused that issue.

Later when the relationship was souring Mercedes basically starved Chrysler of funds. They chased away the award winning design teams that had put Chrysler back on the map. Most of the new products launched under the German watch were junk. They hadn't improved reliability and had arguably decreased perceived quality. The stylist certainly were failing left and right. When the original Neon came out it had a fun styling that helped sell the car. The two generations of Sebrings were really nice looking cars. The current Sebring has fail written all over it. Mercedes had Jeep SUV and Jeep SUV launched into a market saturated with SUVs and high gas prices. They let the mini-vans whither. Mercedes basically ran Chrysler into the ground.

However, that isn't to say there isn't fault on these shores. In this case the big US villain would be the unions. When contract time came Ford and GM were in bad shape. The unions saw this and gave each of them a break. Chrysler wanted the same deal. But, the unions saw German money behind Chrysler and figured they could hold out. That was about the time that Mercedes moved from trying to make it work to, screw this, milk it then kill it.

In the end it isn't too bad that Chrysler nearly killed Mercedes. No, it's almost the other way around except that Mercedes isn't liked to die though it's mismanagement of Chrysler has effectively killed the company. I don't see the Fiat deal really saving it in the end. I suspect Jeep will be all that's left in a few years.

[Spastik_Roach]

I'm gutted for Saab. Huge fan of Saabs myself, think they're very classy cars. Seems the niche got too small, aided by mismanagement. bugger..

[culver]

I'm gutted for Saab. Huge fan of Saabs myself, think they're very classy cars. Seems the niche got too small, aided by mismanagement. bugger..

I think that's a very fair assesment. Their niche was small and the market they wanted to play in was getting VERY crowded. In the US their weren't many practical, sporty, entry level luxury cars in the 1980s and even in the early 90s. However, things really started to change in the mid 90s. BMW was really rising as the 3 series was getting large enough to temp Americans. The Audi A4 was a nice offering. The Japanese were also getting into that market. It became very crowed. Sure SAABs had character but they also had problems and character or not they often weren't great when compared to the competition. They couldn't win based on reliability. They had the hatchback for a while but seemed to have forgotten when new models came out. They were sporty in their own way but that way typically wasn't as good as the German way. They had fun turbo motors but eventually everyone caught up in power. They had good seats... well no one really caught up there. They were safe. Well so was just about everything in the entry level luxury catagory. In the end many of SAABs good features were shared with others. Few things made them stand out. It's just too bad you can't break even on say 60,000 sales per year.

[Ferrer]

Don't know in the US, but in Europe their main problem is that they are not German. Here, all premium manufacturers that are not German (including Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Volvo, Saab, Jaguar,...) have struggled to compete with the Germans (BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi) in quality, resources and most of all sales, especially from the 90s. There was the perception, and there still is in many cases, that if the car isn't German and it is expensive it must be bad, or it must break down all the time or it isn't as high quality as the other, or whatever you can think of.

Of course at the same because they had no sales, that meant no volume, and that in the modern world of globalisation and regulations meant they simply couldn't stay with the Germans in terms of development, engineering and technology. The fact of the matter is though, that up until the 90's all those oddball manufacturers made perfectly good cars that were competitive within the market, and each had its own distinct character.

And that's what has ended up killing them, or making them little more than posh rebadged version of mainstream cars.

[Kitdy]

The Germans also enjoy a position of status that their non-German opponents don't really have.

You sound sad for this though Ferrer, what do you propose be different? How would you have saved these smaller manufacturers from the axe?

[Ferrer]

The Germans also enjoy a position of status that their non-German opponents don't really have.

You sound sad for this though Ferrer, what do you propose be different? How would you have saved these smaller manufacturers from the axe?

I'd say that the only solution is the Jag way, which finally seems to be working. Less volume and more price. Of course that could still go wrong, but images can be overturned, as Audi demonstrated. Or if costumers weren't so damn stupid, these manufacturers could rely more on volume.

The thing is not that long ago those car manufacturers were making great cars. And some of them still are damn good. Why do people not buy them?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

it's a sad prospect, for sure. But is it really that surprising?

I mean, who is the market for Saab? Quirky Semi-Professionals in roles like "Creative Consultants" who have a large disposable income and see fit to spend their money on a car with nearly zero badge cache for anyone except those in the know? Those people drive Hybrids these days, or ride a bike to "save the planet".

Saab's customers are people who hold onto their vehicles. Those who were new to the brand are looking at them in the same breath as an Audi or BMW. Both, in my opinion, better choices in their respective markets.

GM's patronage of Saab is marked as an entirely uncreative company being put in charge of a true individual, and having very little idea of what to do with it. Indecision, problems at home, poor product choices and undesirable product have all conspired to send Saab to the grave.

In the end even those who wanted to bid on it were either being charged too much by GM for a company that hasn't made a profit in what, 15 years? or couldn't justify the expense.

Would Saab work as a niche product? well, what sort of niche? The Premium market it currently sits in has too much competition for it to be anything but a brave choice.

[G35COUPE]

My anger at GM management cannot be measured with any modern instrument or tool.

[Roentgen]

“We will work closely with the Saab organization to wind down the business in an orderly and responsible manner,” said Reilly.

Simply translated as: "We will now put an end to Saab. R.I.P."

GM is run by a bunch of *insert swear word, starting with f, ending with ucking, here* idiots. End of.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Not all companies could have saved their asses just heightening the prices and lowering the volumes, the market isn't large enough for everybody and badge recognition would have entered the picture once again in the end.

Maybe some of them could have. Saab, Jaguar and Alfa Romeo (except that AR would enter Maserati territory, no go there...). I don't know if Volvo could for example, I think they should be more of a rock solid everyday car rather than a luxurious yet uber-safe sedan (or whatever it should be).

What pisses me the most is that of the four companies up for sale at GM, the only one (still) alive is HUMMER.
WTF.

[Kitdy]

Word from Motor Trend is that the Swedish government will have emergency meetings this weekend in an attempt to save Saab.

It ain't over yet.