Can anyone identify this car?

[iwmakemh]

No. The CORVAIR was GM's foray into compact cars of interesting engineering virtue. Their flat six predates Porsche's 901 production by 5 years, and is quite different. The transaxle was used in Pontiac and Oldsmobile models as well, with either slant 4 or small displacement alloy V8 power coupled by a torque tube, something Porsche did 20 years later with the 924/944/928.

Had you looked inside, the logo is on the dash. If it's still for sale from the PD, that little Chevy sedan is worth saving if not rusty,
and way cooler than your project ride IMO.

lol I wasn't at the auction, I was planning on going, but didn't. Its a picture a friend of mine sent me. If I had the money to restore a car I would, but right now I'm trying to get the basics down. I'll work with what I got.

[Kitdy]

Had you looked inside, the logo is on the dash. If it's still for sale from the PD, that little Chevy sedan is worth saving if not rusty,
and way cooler than your project ride IMO.

Don't forget though... It's Unsafe at Any Speed.

Yeah that was cheesy but I don't think I've ever made a Corvair joke so I had to go for it.

The 911 may have come out in '64, but the 356 was rear engined too, and who knows (I am really asking) could it have been some from of inspiration for the Corvair?

[Ferrer]

No. The CORVAIR was GM's foray into compact cars of interesting engineering virtue. Their flat six predates Porsche's 901 production by 5 years, and is quite different. The transaxle was used in Pontiac and Oldsmobile models as well, with either slant 4 or small displacement alloy V8 power coupled by a torque tube, something Porsche did 20 years later with the 924/944/928.

I only knew of the Tempest. What was the Olds with a transaxle?

The 911 may have come out in '64, but the 356 was rear engined too, and who knows (I am really asking) could it have been some from of inspiration for the Corvair?

There were many rear engined cars by then, including Volkswagens, Renaults and Fiats. I doubt Porsche was an inspiration.

[henk4]

While the F85 used the same new A-unibody as the Tempest, technically it was different, i.e. more conventional, so only the Tempest used the transaxle system.

[csl177]

My bad... Henk is correct. the F85 didn't use the transaxle.

[iwmakemh]

and way cooler than your project ride IMO.

I know my car isn't particularly a good car or a classic, but its my first car. I am working on finding a second car that I can use as well, something thats not slow to start off with and looks a lot nicer. If I could afford the insurance I would look at 944s, but I'll go around looking for eighties-nineties MR2s, or an eighties supra. I'm a japanese car guy =P

[csl177]

Good on ya... the second-gen MR2 and Supras are both great cars, if very different. Along with FD Mazda RX7s, among the best Japan had to offer and future collectibles IMHO.

[Stingraysstudio]

The Corvair was originally inspired by these design concepts from GM in the early 50's& 60's...which were offshoots from the Corvette, ( the first "Corvair" concept was made in 1954) & loosely based upon the Mako Shark concept car & Firebird show cars. They were intended to compete with Porsche & VW, and actually were Very Well designed & constructed as a independent suspension mid / rear engine automobile.

The problem resulting was that American drivers at the time the Corvair was brought to market were not adept at driving such a nimble & small car, as most all the stuff at that time was RWD, V8, solid axle, steel frame, beasts !

The other problem was that the "bean counters" got in the way of the production design, and underpowered the car & cheapened the resulting product. This WAS resolved in the 64 - 67 Corvair...which are really awesome cars, the Monza Spyder is still a great looking design & a excellent drive.

It is a Real SHAME that the Corvair was so badly maligned as it did NOT Deserve the critics judgment, Ralf Nader was (& still is) a complete Idiot, who actually undermined the development of small cars in America by his biased & unjustified opinion against the Corvair. Had the Corvair continued, the flood of "import cars" to the USA would have had some Very Stiff competition.

There was even a completely "electric car" concept developed in 1966 from a actual production Corvair, the entire line was apparently way ahead of the times. But, as you can see, had it continued, the results may have been spectacular.

[TheScrutineer]

Looks stunning, a mid engined Stingray

[henk4]

I think what Nader actually (and probable even unknowingly) did was exposing the poor driver qualities of the then American car users who were, as you said yourself, not used to handling a nimble car. And it is a natural reaction of those who can't drive to blame the car because the truth is hard to swallow, so they may have found solace with somebody who was capable of creating a new truth.

Welcome to UCP by the way.

[Ferrer]

I think what Nader actually (and probable even unknowingly) did was exposing the poor driver qualities of the then American car users who were, as you said yourself, not used to handling a nimble car. And it is a natural reaction of those who can't drive to blame the car because the truth is hard to swallow, so they may have found solace with somebody who was capable of creating a new truth.

Welcome to UCP by the way.

That could be controversial.

[leroy]

That could be controversial.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Yes, the average American driver of the early 1960s was probably unused to anything that responded more rapidly to driver inputs than, say, the Queen Mary, but the fact is that most cars with simple swingle-axle IRS, e.g. VW Beetle, early M-B 300SL and even the Triumph Herald, could re-act with sharp oversteer in extreme cornering situations, and while simply backing off the power in most cars of the era would correct their natural understeer if the driver overcooked it, a swing-axle design, oversteering car requires more positive and precise driver action once the limit of adhesion is passed. Additionally, the rear-engined layout tended to induce more instability in side-winds than was the case with a more conventionally laid-out cars. Most contemporary road tests remark on the Beetle's tendency to wander in cross-winds. So I don't think it's fair to place the blame for the Corvette's fall from grace solely at the feet of the American motorist, but Nader, on the other hand, did the car a total injustice by labelling it unsafe; it was just different.

[henk4]

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Yes, the average American driver of the early 1960s was probably unused to anything that responded more rapidly to driver inputs than, say, the Queen Mary, but the fact is that most cars with simple swingle-axle IRS, e.g. VW Beetle, early M-B 300SL and even the Triumph Herald, could re-act with sharp oversteer in extreme cornering situations, and while simply backing off the power in most cars of the era would correct their natural understeer if the driver overcooked it, a swing-axle design, oversteering car requires more positive and precise driver action once the limit of adhesion is passed. Additionally, the rear-engined layout tended to induce more instability in side-winds than was the case with a more conventionally laid-out cars. Most contemporary road tests remark on the Beetle's tendency to wander in cross-winds. So I don't think it's fair to place the blame for the Corvette's fall from grace solely at the feet of the American motorist, but Nader, on the other hand, did the car a total injustice by labelling it unsafe; it was just different.

My comment was also insprired by the sudden surge in uncontrollable Toyotas, which as far as I know only took place in the USA...
And yes the Beetle was very similar in lay-out (the others were plain front engined cars with swing axles, not uncommon in Europe at the time, and a feature of most Mercedes cars up to the end of the sixties even though they managed to come up with something elaborate as the "Eingelenk Pendel Asche" where the swing arms hovered around one pivot). Such cars in the States had a very specific clientele, but the Corvair was clearly aimed at the average Joe, who had no idea what he was letting himself into. (Ironically very comparable to the majority of the buyers of the current BMW-1 Series, who think their car has FWD).

[leroy]

My comment was also insprired by the sudden surge in uncontrollable Toyotas, which as far as I know only took place in the USA...
And yes the Beetle was very similar in lay-out (the others were plain front engined cars with swing axles, not uncommon in Europe at the time, and a feature of most Mercedes cars up to the end of the sixties even though they managed to come up with something elaborate as the "Eingelenk Pendel Asche" where the swing arms hovered around one pivot). Such cars in the States had a very specific clientele, but the Corvair was clearly aimed at the average Joe, who had no idea what he was letting himself into. (Ironically very comparable to the majority of the buyers of the current BMW-1 Series, who think their car has FWD).

There have been 250 reported cases of unintended acceleration in UK for Toyota, which may simply mean that the average UK driver is as incompetent as his American counterpart, or may point to something more sinister; I think the jury is still out on this one, although I'm sure we all remember the last "unintended acceleration" saga, involving Audi in the mid-1980s, which proved ultimately to be purely down to driver error in every instance.

I agree that the buyer of a M-B 300SL, pre "Eingelenk Pendel Asche" (which I believe would be "low-pivot swing-axle" in English) was probably more likely to know what to do if his car tried to face the other way of its own accord in a corner, but what about the Beetle buyer? Perhaps more knowledgeable in the US than the average Joe, where it was more of a specialist car, but still unlikely to know how to control oversteer. I wonder what would have happened if Nader had focussed on the Beetle rather than the Corvair in this part of his book. Sadly, we'll never know, although I believe the Corvair was always scheduled to cease production in 1969 anyway. I'm sure some of GM's designs from the early 70s were more conservative than they might otherwise have been as result of Nader's crusade.

Isn't that scary about the BMW 1-series?

[Ferrer]

What these prove is that apparently the US society is possibly more prone to litigate, not they drive better or worse. And I don't know if they are in fact worse drivers, but here if you drive around a bit you can see all sort of dangerous, and sometimes even downright temerary, behaviours behind the wheel.