Made in the USA? Or Not Made in the USA?

[blackdove83]

Revenue goes to GM regardless. USA or Germany GM still made the car. At this day and age to care about where something is made is pretty backward still....

Now if GM's line everywhere are as flexible as Toyota or Honda's, they can potentially crank these out anywhere. But that depends hugely on if they can source all the stuff locally still, if they still have to ship parts from Europe and assemble the car in US, it might just make even less sense economically....

NOT caring where something is made is pretty backward.

That's mentality has lead to outsourcing of labor to countries like China, that give us garbage in return for our money. That mentality has lead to huge economic destruction in the USA and other countries.

It really does matter where things are made, because without PRODUCTION, you can't really make money. Shuffling debt around and creating financial fiction is different than actually making money from productivity.

Outsourcing and then taking profits doesn't help the economy of the country that's doing it. The CEO's will get income from it still, but it puts people out of jobs that they'd otherwise have, producing things domestically.

I really find it disgusting when people make statements like the one you did.

[henk4]

NOT caring where something is made is pretty backward.

That's mentality has lead to outsourcing of labor to countries like China, that give us garbage in return for our money. That mentality has lead to huge economic destruction in the USA and other countries.

It really does matter where things are made, because without PRODUCTION, you can't really make money. Shuffling debt around and creating financial fiction is different than actually making money from productivity.

Outsourcing and then taking profits doesn't help the economy of the country that's doing it. The CEO's will get income from it still, but it puts people out of jobs that they'd otherwise have, producing things domestically.

I really find it disgusting when people make statements like the one you did.

Welcome to UCP
What makes the difference is the relationship between price and quality. While it is true that when you pay peanuts you will attract monkeys, a large part of the population can only afford to pay peanuts. If you buy from a specific country regardless of its price, one does not act in its own interest. The latter is something most people still do.

[Matra et Alpine]

NOT caring where something is made is pretty backward.

The rationale you post is flawed.

You have equated outsourcing to quality return.
If you buy the cheap stuff from overseas you will get cheap stuff.
Buy quality stuff from overseas you will get quality.

That mentality has lead to huge economic destruction in the USA and other countries.

No, failing to focus on quality and an economy where betting on whether a stock price will be higher or lower in the morning was a quick way to make money has destroyed it.

It really does matter where things are made, because without PRODUCTION, you can't really make money.

100% with you, BUT if what you are building is poor then that is only protecting industry that will only fail worse later. Look at British Leyland in the 70s and the big three Detroit this time around.

I really find it disgusting when people make statements like the one you did.

Which part did you find "disgusting" . I'm confused.

[RacingManiac]

NOT caring where something is made is pretty backward.

That's mentality has lead to outsourcing of labor to countries like China, that give us garbage in return for our money. That mentality has lead to huge economic destruction in the USA and other countries.

It really does matter where things are made, because without PRODUCTION, you can't really make money. Shuffling debt around and creating financial fiction is different than actually making money from productivity.

Outsourcing and then taking profits doesn't help the economy of the country that's doing it. The CEO's will get income from it still, but it puts people out of jobs that they'd otherwise have, producing things domestically.

I really find it disgusting when people make statements like the one you did.

There is the Walmart model of outsource cheap crap to China, and there is model like this Regal where it is made along side of the cars that it is based on, which ultimatlye saves GM money and keeps it afloat, something is rather critical as a whole. The first issue if more about consumer-ism, if there is no market for stuff like that, there wouldn't be need to outsource that kind of jobs. Aside from unfair trade and wage practices in the countries like China, US's own wage level is what priced people overseas anyway.

Despite all the gun-ho about made-in-USA and what not. The bean counter ultimately makes the decision. For something as high capital as automobile, if it makes sense to be made in Germany, it will be made in Germany....same reason that BMW X5 or Mercedes ML is made in USA and ship around the world...

[Matra et Alpine]

^^ ACtually RM, I think the X5 and ML are examples of where a multi-national plays the nationality card and by building in a country they get to sell more high quality, high ticket price products made elsewhere THat and mainly the US buy those under powered behemoths

[Ferrer]

100% with you, BUT if what you are building is poor then that is only protecting industry that will only fail worse later. Look at British Leyland in the 70s and the big three Detroit this time around.

That's spot on.

THat and mainly the US buy those under powered behemoths

Matra, I would say it's mainly that. The US must the biggest market for SUVs anywhere in the world.

[RacingManiac]

BTW, personally I find much more disturbing about the outsourcing trend, is the whole tech support/service industry to somewhere like India. Here is a perfectly easy job to keep domestic. But it is a "skilled" labor, and the reason why its out is because no one wants to do it. When a country like India exist, when majority have English training, and people with good education background are abound, looking for work. Something is wrong about that....if they can't find people in US(or elsewhere) to do jobs like that....

[Matra et Alpine]

Having been in the middle of decisions like that then I can give some insight.

Many educated, degree'ed engineers deem it below them to do customer service calls.
In India/China you can get a DOCTORATE (PhD) educated person who will happily do service/support tasks for less money.

US/European software engineers (for example) really only want to be doing "Interesting" and "new" stuff. Murder trying to get good people willing to maintain other peoples designs and code. As with all things in economics then it will come around and the need for a local job will see salaries drop -- supply and demand rules

[NSXType-R]

Matra, I would say it's mainly that. The US must the biggest market for SUVs anywhere in the world.

That's probably changing, the Chinese love SUVs too, and for the time being there's more money in China than there is in the US.

Honda's made cars in the US since 1982 in Ohio.

VW has made cars in Mexico for a long long time now.

Porsche I think makes Boxsters not in Germany, but in Sweden.

And Mini Coopers are probably not built in England.

Long as they deliver the products as promised, why should anyone really care? People love making a big row out of little things.

If you really want it to be built in whatever country you live in, you might as well buy a kit car. The car may actually be assembled in said country, but you need to be careful, the parts might be built elsewhere.

[csl177]

NOT caring where something is made is pretty backward.

It really does matter where things are made, because without PRODUCTION, you can't really make money. Shuffling debt around and creating financial fiction is different than actually making money from productivity.

Outsourcing and then taking profits doesn't help the economy of the country that's doing it. The CEO's will get income from it still, but it puts people out of jobs that they'd otherwise have, producing things domestically.

Welcome to UCP, blackdove (a nihlist reference?). So, do you exercise your concerns locally or regionally? Where your food is grown, household purchases, clothing, furnishings, that sort of thing? Because if you don't, your "outrage" sounds like parroting of current popular demagogy.

[Kitdy]

What is the opinion of Glen Beck on the matter of outsourcing?

[csl177]

What is the opinion of Glen Beck on the matter of outsourcing?

From a Talkers magazine interview a couple of years ago: "I'm a rodeo clown, here to entertain and make a buck".
That might not indicate his opinion of outsourcing, but does illustrate his relevence to any serious discussion.

[Kitdy]

From a Talkers magazine interview a couple of years ago: "I'm a rodeo clown, here to entertain and make a buck".
That might not indicate his opinion of outsourcing, but does illustrate his relevence to any serious discussion.

Oh, I know, but I wanted to know what the legions of his followers were told to think by him.

Protectionism is against the tenants of neoliberalism and capitalism really, and I would find it interesting if the talk radio class would tell their followers to buy American and keep production in America.

[Matra et Alpine]

no Kitdy, "HE" never told them what to think.
He did the thinking FOR them and offered that they should check it themselves -- perfect smoke and mirrors musichall trick

[csl177]

Oddly enough, many righty talkers spend far more time demonizing "greedy" unions and neoliberalism than decrying jobs lost to multinational corporate decisions.