March 7th, Albert's doomsday

[DesmoRob]

Never mind the speed limit alone. A great way some parts of Canada could improve peoples' fuel economy and the country's pollution output from cars is by introducing the ancient idea of "green wave." My entire area is plagued by poorly timed traffic lights that will leave people gassing and breaking endlessly before they make it through a city. Proper traffic flow equals better fuel economy, less pollution, and less wear and tear on vehicles. Europe has been doing it for ages and it works flawlessly. If only they could take a hint here every once in a while.

[csl177]

^^^ This. You're absolutely right DR, the technique has been around since WW2 when fuel rationing was actually observed, because ignoring it was truly a national security issue. Now it's economic. As someone that has been involved with city planning and seen all sorts of BS in municipal "workshops", I'm convinced lights are timed to make you stop in proximity to shopping centers, which increasingly are the same franchises grouped together every few miles (or less). Those are prime revenue generators for ad-valorum taxes in the US... which is how most counties & cities get a piece back from promoting sprawl. Planners/traffic engineers always cite traffic flow controls with "smart" timing as fuel saving measures. I'd bet plenty of intelligent proposals are (wink) over ruled by county and municipal business interests. Look how long it's taken the US to recognize the efficiancy of traffic circles, but don't expect a rush to build them where possible anytime soon.

The new governor of Florida just rejected $2.5 Billion in Fed $$$ to assist in developing high-speed rail, citing costs while ignoring jobs and efficiency. Though the intitial proposal isn't as elegant as that proposed over 30 years ago, it would be a start. My wife was on the Florida High Speed Rail Commission back then; it was shot down by highway business interests and their political flacks as too expensive. Spend now... or spend a hell of a lot more later.

[Matra et Alpine]

While there is huge risk of unrest in areas of our oil supplies, it moves from economic to strategic concern.

So I do see the sense in government taking action to reduce the consupmtion and preserve supplies. BUT, in the UK they'd have a LOT more impact if they'd ease congestion and educate drivers rather than arbitrary speed limits for a while.

[csl177]

While there is huge risk of unrest in areas of our oil supplies, it moves from economic to strategic concern.

So I do see the sense in government taking action to reduce the consupmtion and preserve supplies. BUT, in the UK they'd have a LOT more impact if they'd ease congestion and educate drivers rather than arbitrary speed limits for a while.

No disagreement, Matra... it's always been a strategic issue and cause of most wars the past 75 years. But public perception of the impact is largely economic, if not a matter of their personal convenience; deal with that properly and progress can be made.

[Ferrer]

Who sets fuel price at the pump in Spain, the government?

There's a large degree of taxes associated to the consumer's fuel price, but price flucutations themselves are ultimately dictated by offer and demand.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The whole thing of offer and demand isn't really working here:
- you buy more cars with schemes like "cash for clunkers", so you get a new car with a better mileage in most cases, yet the price gets higher
- you sell less new cars because of the bad economy, and the fuel price goes up again.

Last time the price actually dropped was probably in 2001 I think.
Petrol went from 1.800 Lire (old currency) in 1999/2000 to 2.200 Lire, than back to 1.900 or so. Incidentally my scooter was just collecting dust that year of savage prices...

[Ferrer]

But you don't only have to consider your demand, but other countries demans as well.

Also, fuel increase can come from the other side, a shortage on supply, which is what's happening now.

EDIT I remember lowering fuel prices (and prices full stop as well) earlier in this current economic crisis. there was even fear of deflation.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Over here it was something like -0.05 €, from 1.35 to 1.30, and prices are increasing regardless of what's happening outside of Italy as well. Someone has to pay for Berlusconi's chicks/trials/jokes/etc I suppose.

Besides, I remember a study stating it takes at least 6 months, not considering stored national supplies, from the moment one liter of fuel is produced until it reaches the pump. At the same time prices increase in a snap when someone sneezes on the other side of the world, and if they'll later decrease it'll take weeks.

[Dino Scuderia]

Berlusconi should come and party with Charlie Sheen!

In India the government controls the wholesale/retail price of fuel and the price changes but once a year. Easier for the public and companies to budget and certainly takes out the volatility factor. I suppose the the gov't averages out the cost over the previous year to set the next years price. Would love to know all the details.

Besides, I remember a study stating it takes at least 6 months, not considering stored national supplies, from the moment one liter of fuel is produced until it reaches the pump. At the same time prices increase in a snap when someone sneezes on the other side of the world, and if they'll later decrease it'll take weeks.

Yes, the futures market is complex, to make sense of your statement about when prices rise and fall at the pump you have to take futures into account. It's a beautifully rigged system so that traders never lose.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Truth be said, Charlie Sheen did some epic movies though.

[Badsight]

Nobody forces you to drive to the speed limit, so I don't see how you are going to save more money now. If you couldn't afford going at 120km/h you alread lowered your speed many months ago. And anyway, if you can't afford the toll roads or a car at all. I don't see how lowering the speed limit by 10km/h is going to make a big deal.

the government isnt worried if you can afford it or not

what the government wants , is the countrys fuel reserves to not run out

the want the countrys consumption to lower

most cars when tested have 60 mph as their economy sweet spot (especially japanese cars)

[Badsight]

Last time the price actually dropped was probably in 2001 I think.
Petrol went from 1.800 Lire (old currency) in 1999/2000 to 2.200 Lire, than back to 1.900 or so. Incidentally my scooter was just collecting dust that year of savage prices...

the horrible thing is :

the last price rise happened when oil was $ 1.50 a barrel

with oil lately hovering around $ 1.00 / barrel , the petrol price in my country is now back up to that previous high cost

its pure speculation & price fixing

[Ferrer]

the government isnt worried if you can afford it or not

what the government wants , is the countrys fuel reserves to not run out

the want the countrys consumption to lower

most cars when tested have 60 mph as their economy sweet spot (especially japanese cars)

Don't worry we are not buying any.

[ruim20]

Over here we are currently at 1.36€L of diesel and 1.51€L of 95oct gas. The prices just went up another 2 cents yesterday, in a country were the minimum wage is 475€.

And still yesterday and today i was overtaken by almost everyone on the highway...

[Ferrer]

Wow!

That's expensive. Here 98 is about 1.40€ a litre. Or at least it was last time I filled up the tank.