The State of The Car

[Revo]

Alfa Romeo has seen intents on revivals these last years, but this current one is the most exciting one in decades. Essentially, Alfa Romeo is going fully rear wheel drive. Now that they are free from annoying competition (Lancia) and with the necessary resources at their disposal (Chrysler) it looks as though they could make this time.

The big flaw in the plan is that it presumes Alfa dealers can survive next couple of years by selling lineup consisting of just one and half models.

I still can not believe that they abandoned MX-5/Spider project.

[Ferrer]

The big flaw in the plan is that it presumes Alfa dealers can survive next couple of years by selling lineup consisting of just one and half models.

I still can not believe that they abandoned MX-5/Spider project.

Well, AFAIK in Europe there are no standalone Alfa Romeo dealers; they are always part of the Fisler network. In this case they will probably be able to survive with a reduced line-up.

As for the Spider, I'm too sad to learn that it will not see the light of day. A small rear wheel drive Alfa roadster would've been great but unfortunately it doesn't seem to fit in Alfa Romeo's current plan. What Alfa Romeo is trying is to aim at the very top of the premium offerings, by using bespoke components, desirable cars and (most importantly) jacking up prices and image.

The MX-5 is lovely, but none of the big three (Daimler, BMW, Audi) have a car in this segment (for the moment at least) and wouldn't the Mazda roots diminish its value?

I'm sure Marchionne would've actually preferred to not have signed the agreement with Mazda now, but since they have and I assume the penalisation for breaking it must be quite high, the car has been transferred to the brand where it can do the least damage; Fiat.

At Alfa Romeo the 4C does the halo-car job very well currently (negating the immediate need for the Spider), and in the future if they get into the sportscar business it will very probably be to fight Boxsters not MX-5s. Maybe the Spider was a backup plan in case the 4C backfired, which hasn't been the case.

[Revo]

Well, AFAIK in Europe there are no standalone Alfa Romeo dealers; they are always part of the Fisler network.

Over here, it is a huge mess. We have separate dealers for each of the FCA brands. Ridiculously, if you fancy a Lancia Voyager, you'll go to Mercedes-Benz dealer. A Fiat van can be picked up from the BMW dealer.

Peculiarities of a small market.

[NSXType-R]

The big flaw in the plan is that it presumes Alfa dealers can survive next couple of years by selling lineup consisting of just one and half models.

I still can not believe that they abandoned MX-5/Spider project.

I read through the Chrysler plans quickly, where did they say they would stop building the roadster with Mazda?

The MX-5 is lovely, but none of the big three (Daimler, BMW, Audi) have a car in this segment (for the moment at least) and wouldn't the Mazda roots diminish its value?

Doesn't Mercedes and BMW have lower displacement versions of the SLK and the Z4 that they sell in Europe? How well do they do?

A bit of a side note, the Honda S660 has been given the go ahead, but probably only in Japan and maybe EU markets only I assume.

I also find it odd that Chrysler is not making luxury cars anymore, as Ford has the money to make luxury cars but just decides not to. The only real American luxury carmaker is Cadillac.

It's stupid to have the Chrysler brand demoted to cheaper cars, Dodge has been doing that all along anyway. Besides, there's not much performance to be had unless you go for the Challenger or Viper. You'd be retarded to be shopping at Dodge for a performance car.

I think Fiat wants to position Alfa for a mid level luxury car sales and Maserati for high end luxury at the expense of Chrysler. It is a smart business move for the Italian marques.

[Ferrer]

Doesn't Mercedes and BMW have lower displacement versions of the SLK and the Z4 that they sell in Europe? How well do they do?

They do indeed, and I presume they are the best selling variants of the range, but even though the entry-level versions could compete with top-end MX-5s they are still not on the same sort of market.

In the same way that nobody is going to cross-shop a BMW 220i with a Toyota GT86.

(I would, but nevermind...)

[NSXType-R]

They do indeed, and I presume they are the best selling variants of the range, but even though the entry-level versions could compete with top-end MX-5s they are still not on the same sort of market.

In the same way that nobody is going to cross-shop a BMW 220i with a Toyota GT86.

(I would, but nevermind...)

Price wise I think the low end BMW and Mercedes convertibles might be quite close to a Mazda Miata.

There's nothing wrong with cross shopping, it only shows that you are a sophisticated consumer.

[pimento]

There's renewed talk of a BMW Z2, probably based on the FWD mini platform. Having a little RWD roadster to compete with that would give Alfa a geniune 'better than a beemer' car.

[Revo]

I read through the Chrysler plans quickly, where did they say they would stop building the roadster with Mazda?

The deal is still on. With a slight change.

According to upcoming models chart, in late 2015 Fiat will release a mysterious car known as "Speciality". That was the only thing in any FCA product plans resembling a MX-5 shaped car.

[f6fhellcat13]

Mere color, unspoiled by meaning | Hemmings Daily

[Ferrer]

Mere color, unspoiled by meaning | Hemmings Daily

What if you bought the car off the dealer's showroom and you couldn't choose the color?

[NSXType-R]

Mere color, unspoiled by meaning | Hemmings Daily

Yeah, it doesn't help that the highest trim Accord sedans that Honda sells with manuals are grey and darker grey.

I wonder if I can special order from Japan if I paid more.

[crisis]

Well ironically I feel pretty much the same about most European cars. Basically because in Australia they all command a premium price because they are “European”. The snob value attached alone is enough to put me off. When I see a Citroën C5 boasting front wheel drive and 150kw for AU $57,000 against a Holden Calais RWD 210kw AU$44,297 I cannot understand why anyone would buy the former other than for the snob value (or perhaps fuel economy that you can still get elsewhere). There may be a bunch of electronic gadgets that the Holden doesn’t have but I haven’t really looked into it because as far as cars go I don’t care. I suppose I see that most of these cars are for people who don’t really “love” cars rather see them as a form of transport. All good.
While not one who has a broad personal knowledge of European cars I guess I take a lot of stock in what I have heard from those who have. My father in law, was a service manager for several dealerships as well as being a qualified mechanic. He has worked on many types of cars. My brother in law is a qualified mechanic, has been a service manager, owned his own service centre and now lectures in automotive at TAFE ( a tertiary college for apprentice mechanics). One of my mates is a qualified mechanic, has owned his own service centre, has been a service manager and also lectures at MTA (a private tertiary college for apprentices). Both my mate and brother in law come in contact with apprentices from a variety of dealerships. These guys pretty much hold the same opinion as me and I guess influence mine in as much as my indifference toward European (and French) cars. Basically overpriced (here in Oz) and not necessarily reliable or at least no more so than our domestic product. And when you have to fork out for repairs the cost is exponentially higher. They simply do not offer anything I find more desirable than our own home grown product. Sure a high end BMW or Merc would be desirable but I don’t even necessarily aspire to one of them either. And as you say I couldn’t afford one. ;-)

While not exactly empirical
The UK’s ten least reliable cars - BBC Top Gear

[henk4]

While not exactly empirical
The UK’s ten least reliable cars - BBC Top Gear

somebody wrote this as an answer...

"Until these surveys operationalise reliability, I disregard this information as it's only based on arbitrary results"

[NSXType-R]

Originally in the why you should buy a Corvette thread...

What are your opinions on the GM total recall?

It angers me that the US government bailed out a company that cared so little about safety in its customers. It seemed like the government and media were much more concerned when Toyota had its acceleration issues and while there is concern with GM, there doesn't seem to be as much concern.

[pimento]

Honestly the whole bailout thing still comes back to just how easy the banks got out of it, after the ruined the economy in the first place. No one did due diligence that deeply when they were bailing out GM, why would they? It was a case of keeping a large economic driver going, not how worthwhile they were as corporate citizens. How the media reacts to anything is a whole other issue.