Pro-Gun Laws Lobbyists...

[cls12vg30]

A lady security guard here was bashed bad she was armed in distress with blood coming from everywhere she killed him. He beat her bad but wasn't going to kill her but in her distressed state from the beating she shot him, She is now facing a murder charge and the community is outraged, She is now in a bad way still, But see what can happen with guns you can never say never when it comes to a gun it's a killing weapon that's it.

"He wasn't going to kill her"? How can anyone know that? Her attacker certainly didn't mean to do her any good. This woman was completely within her rights to shoot to kill in that situation. I hope the community is outraged that she is being charged, not that she killed her attacker. In the United States this would be a clear-cut case of self-defense and so long as she was legally armed no charges would be filed against her. And that's exactly the way it should be. Or is a person in that situation supposed to just take a savage beating and hope the attacker stops before they're dead?

How anyone can weep over the death of a person that would so severely beat a lady security guard is beyond me. That person made a conscious decision to attack that woman. When a criminal makes this decision they are also risking their own life. They have broken the social contract that keeps a civilized society going.

There sure weren't any police around to help her, now were there? To have a truly free society each person must take responsibility for themselves. That includes taking responsibility for their personal safety.

Those that would leave this woman or anyone else defenseless against such an attack make me ill.

[SlickHolden]

"He wasn't going to kill her"? How can anyone know that?

What do you think a witness is it was in the day in a very busy part. He just wanted the money and she fought with him it's her job isnt it, So he hit her till he got it.

[SlickHolden]

"He wasn't going to kill her"? How can anyone know that? Her attacker certainly didn't mean to do her any good. This woman was completely within her rights to shoot to kill in that situation. I hope the community is outraged that she is being charged, not that she killed her attacker. In the United States this would be a clear-cut case of self-defense and so long as she was legally armed no charges would be filed against her. And that's exactly the way it should be. Or is a person in that situation supposed to just take a savage beating and hope the attacker stops before they're dead?

How anyone can weep over the death of a person that would so severely beat a lady security guard is beyond me. That person made a conscious decision to attack that woman. When a criminal makes this decision they are also risking their own life. They have broken the social contract that keeps a civilized society going.

There sure weren't any police around to help her, now were there? To have a truly free society each person must take responsibility for themselves. That includes taking responsibility for their personal safety.

Those that would leave this woman or anyone else defenseless against such an attack make me ill.

Hey under your personal law when your assaulted you can just kill someone,
Last year i was hit from behind and my nose was broken. Shit i should just pull out my gun and cap this bitch hey it's all good self defense under you personal law.


Here you go read all about the shooting here............. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...?oneclick=true

[Coventrysucks]

The inherent human right to self-defense is no less inalienable than any other right. It is the right of all free people to defend themselves, their families, and their homes by the most effective means available.

I have never, ever felt that I have been at risk of someone bursting into my house and killing me.

The likely hood of someone breaking into your house while you are there is very small, sure you hear about it in the news sometimes, but what about the 294,742,289 people in the USA who didn't have someone break into their house when they were there?

If you really think you are at risk - fit decent, secure double glazing and lock the doors, that'll stop anyone who isn't a crazed maniac souly intent on breaking in and killing you, which is doubtful.

The strength of our double glazing stopped the burglars who tried to break into our house. (whilst we weren't there) Despite that one attempt, I don't worry about it happening.

Banning guns is foolish to even talk about, even if it wasn't a gross violation of human rights. The UK's rate of violent crime and even gun crime has skyrocketed since the people there were disarmed.

I doubt there is a clause in the Human Rights Charter about owning guns.

Know the facts: gun crime and violent crime has gone up in the UK because of:

a) A decrease in the numbers of Police there to find the illegal firearms.

b) The ammount of gun/ violent crime being reported has increased sharply.
There was a lot of gun/ violent crime before, but it wasn't reported, so no one knew about it.

Hunting rifles/ shotguns are still allowed in the UK, as are target pistols etc.
The only thing banned was personal handguns.

This was decided after a nutter walked into a primary school with his four handguns and killed 16 5-6 year old children.

If he hadn't of had the guns (and I doubt that anyone as messed up as he was that day would have been in any fit state to go and find someone in the blackmarket gun trade and get a couple on the way there) he wouldn't have been able to kill so many innocent children.

The criminals who had guns before they became illegal probably still have them. Not surprising really.

(Hitler was one of the first in modern history to disarm his country this way, little by little, starting with the Jews.)

And so many other "disarmed" countries have fallen to facist dictators...

Maybe such things will never again have to happen in our "civilized" countries of North America, Europe, and Australia. Am I willing to bet my life and my liberty on that assumption? No way. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and there are millions of us that are armed, trained, and ready, should that day ever come.

Looks like you are in for a long wait.

[Innotech]

I just like guns. I like the mechanics of them and how something so powerful can be contained in a small device. Its neat to study how they work and their histories. Its fun to shoot them at targets as a hobby. they make good display pieces, like swords. There are a myriad of reasons why I like guns, and why I feel people should be able to have them. killing other people isnt the reason most people own a gun. But for me, none of that anti-gun stuff matters, because I have a few guns, and I will shoot them safely at non-human, inanimate targets as often as I wish without hurting anyone.
For me, as long as the gun is handled safely, responsibly and intelligently, it shouldnt be an issue.

[SlickHolden]

Legal guns still fall into the wrong hands,
But as for hunting and gun collectors didn't here anybody say they had to go, Just stop automatic guns hand guns and semi automatic guns, They are to easy to get, Rifles for hunting is fine but even a safe hunting day can go wrong 2 people were killed last hunt so i guess bad things can still come from being safe and careful and responsible, To say your responsible and intelligent and you will never shot your gun at a person or accidently injure someone, Is like saying your house will be broke into tonight and you will be killed so you need a weapon to kill that person first,
Now what are the chances of you shooting someone, Or someone shooting you ??
And don't ignore people that think safety over guns. Listen don't shrug it off like it don't matter cause what you might see is most in here in this thread are saying guns in the
U.S are far to easy to get and that wrong. 120,000 death from firearms in the U.S.
60 in the UK, 38 in Australia. See the big difference. The UK has gun control, Australia has gun control the U.S doesn't. In the U.S you can drive around with a hand gun in the glove box. Legal guns are stolen if someone wants one bad enough they will get it, Limit the number of guns that are legal like ban hand guns and automatic-semiautomatic weapons. then they can concentrate on keeping the illegal weapons at bay isn't it worth a try to save life's, You cant say it wont help cause it hasn't been tried yet.

[Matra et Alpine]

Such measures have almost invariably been a prelude to confiscation in other countries, both recently and throughout history. (Hitler was one of the first in modern history to disarm his country this way, little by little, starting with the Jews.)

RReview history befoire posting cls, please.
Hitler gave 'his people' the right to take up arms and supress those in the community that didn't "fit in".
HE ARMED HIS PEOPLE.
He promoted a military and gun culture.
He GAVE Germans the "right" to take up arms against oppression and convinced them it was the Fews who were financially the oppressors !!

[Luciferous]

I'm trying to understand these pro-gun sentiments, I really am, so I've decided to put myself in the other person's shoes for the sake of curiosity. So here is me arguing against myself and giving a pro-gun view:

I just like guns. I really do. I love the rush when you hold one, how it can be so dangerous. I just like to play with guns as a past time, I'm totally responsible with it. I only aim at things, it's not like I ever pull the trigger. Like the other day, I was sitting at home in the trailer park, playing with my rifle (as you do) hoping that a criminal would break in to rape my wife and eat my children so I could blow his sorry ass away. So I was sitting there looking out the window, and I saw the postman, and since there seemed to be so little junkies and murderers breaking into my house, I aimed my trusty rifle at him through the window. I wasn't gonna pull the trigger, but I just wanted to see what it'd be like to look at a man down from the gun's barrel. Totally safe. I just wanted to feel like a man. Is there a problem with that? Of course not, its called Liberty and Freedom. I can do whatever I want to feel good about myself because noone ENDED UP getting hurt in the end.

A gun is just a tool, like a toaster, or a spoon, or a bandsaw. People say that guns only have one use but they have plenty. Like not only can you shoot people (and Mexicans) with them, you can also give 'em a tap to the head with the butt. Handy hey? Also, if you got yourself a hunting dog that aint no good at hunting no more you can help him shed off his mortal coil a lot quicker like. See, guns are plenty useful.

Kids should be given guns at an early age so that if I'm ever at the welfare office when a murderer breaks into my home, I can trust little Cletus or Brandine to take care of business, just like it says there in the constitution. Gun safety is important to me, which is why you have to teach people about how guns can be dangerous. They can dislocate your shoulder if you fire a rifle wrong, and with our lack of government health care, that'll cost money that I've spent on ammo and cigarettes.

So in closing I just wanna say that I love guns and noone can take them away from me because if Hitler came out of hiding like we all know he will one day and sticks us all in concentration camps we'd all be in big trouble, so therefore its taking away my basic rights as a citizen of this country that I love so dearly to screw around with a lethal weapon whenever the hell I feel like it.

QED

[SlickHolden]

I'm convinced now thanks dude gimmie a weapon the postman is comming soon

[Luciferous]

Guns are also handy for scaring away the neighbourhood cats who fight when your trying to go to sleep. Plus when you got a 'gator swimming up your toilet its handy to have a gun ready to take care of it. My cousin Jethro lost his hand because he did not have a rifle with him when he went to the outhouse. Now I know better.

[Egg Nog]

So essentially, do the pro-gun people just believe that the mental and mechanical appreciation for guns/hunting/etc is enough to offset the horror and pain caused by them on the other end of the spectrum?

[crisis]

Even with personal tragedy I stand by my right to own guns and shoot them. I am not hte kind of person to kill someone in the first place, and I know how to handle guns safely. You just have to respect a gun and what it can do. Its more of a hobby, a toy than anything for me. a serious toy, but one nonetheless.

So you are not the problem. That is not the point. Its the "other guy" who has passed all the tests etc etc. I dont really want to discuss you personal case so I'll leave it there.

[crisis]

I have never, ever felt that I have been at risk of someone bursting into my house and killing me.

The likely hood of someone breaking into your house while you are there is very small, sure you hear about it in the news sometimes, but what about the 294,742,289 people in the USA who didn't have someone break into their house when they were there?.

Thats spot on. In Oz you are most likely to be attacked by someone known to you, ie family member, fellow crim etc that by a random attack. The family member would likely be a "crime of passion" ,jealousy or agreived at some family related issue. These are the spur of the moment rages that make guns so convenient to commit the attack. The criminal type usually involve people breaking in where they know there are drugs.

I doubt there is a clause in the Human Rights Charter about owning guns.

Know the facts: gun crime and violent crime has gone up in the UK because of:

a) A decrease in the numbers of Police there to find the illegal firearms.

b) The ammount of gun/ violent crime being reported has increased sharply.
There was a lot of gun/ violent crime before, but it wasn't reported, so no one knew about it.

Hunting rifles/ shotguns are still allowed in the UK, as are target pistols etc.
The only thing banned was personal handguns.

This was decided after a nutter walked into a primary school with his four handguns and killed 16 5-6 year old children.

If he hadn't of had the guns (and I doubt that anyone as messed up as he was that day would have been in any fit state to go and find someone in the blackmarket gun trade and get a couple on the way there) he wouldn't have been able to kill so many innocent children.

Well put. The statistics that are brought out to "show" where the availability of guns has affected the crime rates should always be qualified with all other factors that have contributed .

[cossie]

The only problem I really see is child safety around guns. Kids should be given demonstrations of what a gun can do at early ages, as well as told never to touch them and how to handle them safely when allowed to hold them. That would go a long way towards decreasing the number of gun related accidents and death with children.
Guns are not inherently dangerous when handled properly and safely.

This insane idea of letting kids handle guns which to a child is quite a heavy item was proven how they shouldn't be in the hands of the public the other night on some real life ER show from the states which showed a father come in with a bullet to his head which came from his 8 year olds hunting rifle.When they were out 'hunting' (which they had done a few times before as his father had taught him how to handle a gun) the son accidently dropped the gun and it discharged, hitting the father in the head and he eventually died in hospital.I don't think anyone with sane mind can honestly say kids should handle or be around guns.

[crisis]

I wonder if it was a legal gun or an illegal one the guy used to kill Dimebag and the fans at the Damageplan concert. Suppose it dont matter really.