So come on then , lets get analytical.....
How does the Corvette suspension control the dynamic change of spring length on the leafs front and rear ? Get the facts, educate me, tell me how it's a good idea ???
Super Moderator
So come on then , lets get analytical.....
How does the Corvette suspension control the dynamic change of spring length on the leafs front and rear ? Get the facts, educate me, tell me how it's a good idea ???
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Enthusiast
So i guess you have no articles then eh? What about the n-ring? Id say thats fairly "fair" Werent both the euro spec 911 and american 911 run there?Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
We'd gone over this - something else you chose to "read over" I guess
Anyway, I'll recap for you, there are differences in cars and tests. Get it ?
Suspensions settings for European and US are often different, I can't say for the 'vette though. So differnet setups can account for different laucnh. Until they publish all the sprind and damper settings for each test you can never be sure - and if you expect them to do THAT you're in cloud-cuckoo-land. IT woudl turn off 99% of the normal readers.
Tyres are different compounds.
Roads/tracks are different materials with different grips.
Thes all alter things so any comparison within 1/4 second are pointless and you clearly "read over" THAT before too.
Oh and still not trying to do "archibald" are you
You cite the European journalist comment again as if it's gospel and yet ignore the possibility that lack of expereince and skill on the other hand can also affect it. eg the 911 and not trail braking and talkign abotu axle-tramp !!
PLEASE Slicks , you're jsut making yourself look even MORE bigotted and idiotic.
And MY bigest personal problem is I don't suffer fools gladly. I try my bets to TRY to be accepting of stupidity and lack of consideration but I can't keep it up for long. So usually I jsut step out or block bposts or whatever. But you THEN take that consideration as a 'win' for you. So this time I'm in the mood to shine the bright light of analysis and tear up your viewpoint with your own comments. I'm in a sh!tty mood and you're gonna take the wrath of my analaytical skill until you whimper like a pussy
Enthusiast
You should know this one, thats pretty simple. The springs are mounted transversly (horizontally to the car). The leaf spring, (one side or the other, or both) compresses just as a coil does. Dont tell me to draw a diagram, i have before. I trully dont see any perfomance advantages from a leafsrpring, but then i dont see any disadvantages. Although vibration from one wheel can effect the opposite wheel. Since the same spring is connected to both wheels, they then share the same vibrations. This could hinder performance, but i have yet to hear about it.
Another thing that i have thought of is a coil spring can be full compressed, where as a leaf spring cannot (atleast not in a car.) That could have something to do with it, ive heard of coil spring vettes bottoming out when cornering.
'64
At least I know when I am being a dick, unlike you.
Do you really believe that American journalists are better drivers than European Journalists?
It is such a stupid comment on so many levels.
Do you actually have any proof of this, or did you just make it up?
Meanwhile back in the land of the sane...
Evo: M-Coupe vs Carrera 4S vs NSX vs Tuscan S vs Z06
"Quite simply none of the other cars can compete with the TVR when it comes to generating pure, visceral lust, nor as it turns out for raw speed. With 400bhp and just 1,100kg to haul around it is explosively quick, quicker even than the rocket sled Z06"
Courgette:
"Shame then that the plastics don't posess the tactile of visual quality you'd expect of a £50,000 car."
"the improvement in the Z06's chassis over the standard Corvette is as impressive as its ballistic speed."
"it has feel, composure and a modicum of mid-corner adjustability, something lesser 'Vettes lack."
"Its a bit wide though, a bit big for British B-roads, and there's still that feeling that there's a bit of lateral sproing over bumpy, fast roads, as if there's more give sideways than vertically"
"The Courgette's case is the hardest to argue simply because it is left-hand drive, import-only and, at least as far as the interior is concerned, not worth £50,000" 4/5
Carrera:
"The C4S has a sublime chassis."
"Over these roads it is the quickest of the group and the easiest to drive at that pace."
"there's no way you could argue against this silver 911 winning yet another evo group test." 5/5
BMW M coupe 4/5
Honda NSX 5/5
TVR Tuscan S 4/5
I'm willing to bet that these inferior retards will be more than willing to test the C6 when it dares to show its face at their offices.
Last edited by Coventrysucks; 11-09-2004 at 01:14 PM.
Thanks for all the fish
Enthusiast
TVRs are pretty cheap cars to buy, but they esque of quality. They are hand built in small numbers. The Courgette I mean Corvette is a cheap car but it has cheap feel to the interior and exterior. That is why it is cheap to buy.
Enthusiast
I wasnt trying to be a dick, sry if it came off that way.
Not really, thats impossible to be sure of. But i will say this, in general they know how to drive cars with low end torque better.Do you really believe that American journalists are better drivers than European Journalists?
Yes, ive seen that article, they also had to import the Z06.Evo: M-Coupe vs Carrera 4S vs NSX vs Tuscan S vs Z06
"Quite simply none of the other cars can compete with the TVR when it comes to generating pure, visceral lust, nor as it turns out for raw speed. With 400bhp and just 1,100kg to haul around it is explosively quick, quicker even than the rocket sled Z06"
You forgot the good stuff:Courgette:
"Shame then that the plastics don't posess the tactile of visual quality you'd expect of a £50,000 car."
"the improvement in the Z06's chassis over the standard Corvette is as impressive as its ballistic speed."
"it has feel, composure and a modicum of mid-corner adjustability, something lesser 'Vettes lack."
"Its a bit wide though, a bit big for British B-roads, and there's still that feeling that there's a bit of lateral sproing over bumpy, fast roads, as if there's more give sideways than vertically"
"The Courgette's case is the hardest to argue simply because it is left-hand drive, import-only and, at least as far as the interior is concerned, not worth £50,000" 4/5
"but the ZO6 deserves respect, as it's a far more serious tool than prejudice would have you believe"
"he instruments are clear and attractive,"
"However, when you're pinned to your seat by raw accelerative g, plastic quality is the last thing on your mind"
"It really does have the most ridiculous levels of grunt."
"In fact I don't think I've ever experienced a car with so much any- gear, any-revs response; if you wanted you could simply slot it into fourth gear and leave it there. Happy to chunter through town at 30mph, the Vette then likes nothing better than to hook itself onto the 911's tail and torment it as 3.6-litres of unsuspecting German flat-six attempts to run away and hide from 5.7-litres of roaring Yank V8. With Barker at the Z06's wheel it soon got a taste for M Coupe, too, as a somewhat surprised Roger Green discovered."
"'I was amazed to see the large yellow nose fill the rear-view mirror of the M Coupe,' said Rog. 'Through a long fast right-hander I expected to see it fall back, but not only did it stay put, it went past down the following straight!'"
"Grip levels are very strong, so you can learn to trust it and lean on it. Its brakes are superb, too, the best here with a wonderfully feelsome pedal that gives bite right from the top of its travel and doesn't induce chassis squirm, even on very bumpy corner entries. "
[/quote]
Im sure these nice gentlemen will test a C6 given the chance. They posed a pretty fair argument, unlike topgear...Carrera:
"The C4S has a sublime chassis."
"Over these roads it is the quickest of the group and the easiest to drive at that pace."
"there's no way you could argue against this silver 911 winning yet another evo group test." 5/5
BMW M coupe 4/5
Honda NSX 5/5
TVR Tuscan S 4/5
I'm willing to bet that these inferior retards will be more than willing to test the C6 when it dares to show its face at their offices.
BTW the C6 is different from the C5 Z06...
Last edited by Slicks; 11-09-2004 at 02:47 PM.
UCP'S Guardian Devil
For my driving style I'd take the Vette, I like to take advantage of a V8s low and mid-range torque as opposed to the Porsches high reving flat six. As far as build quality the Porsche.
"NEVER ALLOW SOMEONE TO BE YOUR PRIORITY, WHILE ALLOWING YOURSELF TO BE THEIR OPTION"
Super Moderator
OK, when a leaf is uncompressed it has a fixed length - call it X.
As a leaf spring compresses, it goes flatter, that makes it longer - call it Y.
The distance Y-X has to be accomodated SOMEHWERE in moving parts in the suspension. Care to explin where and the effect it has on handling ??
Think about th elength variation, I gave you the hint in the last post.Dont tell me to draw a diagram, i have before. I trully dont see any perfomance advantages from a leafsrpring, but then i dont see any disadvantages.
Oh, yeah, that'll be something you "read over" in an article on performance suspension thenAlthough vibration from one wheel can effect the opposite wheel. Since the same spring is connected to both wheels, they then share the same vibrations. This could hinder performance, but i have yet to hear about it.
What a load of BS.Another thing that i have thought of is a coil spring can be full compressed, where as a leaf spring cannot (atleast not in a car.) That could have something to do with it, ive heard of coil spring vettes bottoming out when cornering.
A leaf spring can fully compress.
The designer MUST put in a bump stop before the spring is compressed beyond the vertical or it now acts to forcibly LIFT the car like a jumping jack.
Just as a decent coil spring suspension will put in a compliant bumpstop to prevent harsh bottoming.
Sorry, Slicks, you haven't a CLUE how a leaf spring suspension works and yet claim it's benefits.
I think you've read an article in your comic - did it have words or was it all just pictures ?
LMFAO
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
'64
Not to worry, I am just really pissed off today, for no apparent reason.
No offense meant.
Why did you say it then?
Curses! Foiled!
I know the C6 is different, and quite good.
I wouldn't be tempted buy one, mosty due to personal taste.
They do make a lot of positive comments about the Cougette on Top Gear, but everyone seems to focus on the negative comments Hammond makes, yet at the end he is defending it against JC.
They are biased against everyone though. Apart from the Italians.
Thanks for all the fish
Furniture
the driver of the porsche is a tard, and chevy lowers their actual 0-60's whil porsche raises them, the porsche spec 0-60 for the carrera is 4.8, but all the tests ive seen show it more than half a second faster
He came dancing across the water
With his galleons and guns
Looking for the new world
In that palace in the sun
On the shore lay Montezuma
With his cocoa leaves and pearls
The Voice of Reason
Awesome post! Best one I've seen in a long time. You seem to have covered everything that needed to be put forward
And by the way, people who blame the drivers of these tests are pretty goddamn supid. There's no automotive journalist out there who wouldn't try just as hard with one car as with any other during the same test. Also, they're hardly to blame for a goddamn split-second 0-60 difference from "the best you've seen"... it's called "conditions" - they change on earth sometimes.
Last edited by Egg Nog; 11-09-2004 at 05:13 PM.
Enthusiast
Alright im no engineer, but id bet you couldnt explain it either.
Im not going to spend time tonight looking crap up for you, so if you know it off the top of your head, please humor me.
One thing i will add though whether it be an advantage or not is this. As i hope you know the leaf spring is connected to the center of the axle. When cornering with IRS the center axle moves with the body as the body rolls in the opposite direction of the corner. Its safe to say that if the center of the axle moves then so does the leaf spring, being that is what it is connected to. Since the spring is moving with the body, would that not make the side its moving toward more compressed (causing more grip) and the side its moving away from less compressed, having less grip (enabling the car to tend to corner better or easier.)
Not really being that i thought that point up. Stop thinking that i think leafs are the greatest, because i dont. Again you assume things. I dont think there the greatest just because i defend them, they work, and they obveously work pretty good being able to generate ove 1G on the skid pad...Oh, yeah, that'll be something you "read over" in an article on performance suspension then
Ive got an idea, but i can claim its benifits from reading them... Sry unfortunetly no picsSorry, Slicks, you haven't a CLUE how a leaf spring suspension works and yet claim it's benefits.
I think you've read an article in your comic - did it have words or was it all just pictures ?
That was a good comic though
Dont quit your day job, your no comedian...
Enthusiast
I'll take Corvette here for the bang for the buck. While I'm in the 911's rear view mirror, I can laugh all the way to the bank.
Or I'll sell it and get somehting with 4 seats. In that case I'll take the Porsche for its higher value
An it harm none, do as ye will
Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.
Super Moderator
You produce enough humour for UCP with your pointless and now demontrably useless posts
yes, I coudl explain it, why woudl I have asked YOU to if I didnt' know the answers ?
You KEEP forgetting ( or are you just "reading over" it AGAIN ) that I've rallied/raced and tuned these setups.
"loking up crap" - very telling Slicsk, you were being advised to find the truth.
Now you've shown your hand, we all know how little regard you actually have for truth and real knowledge.
NOOne thing i will add though whether it be an advantage or not is this. As i hope you know the leaf spring is connected to the center of the axle. When cornering with IRS the center axle moves with the body as the body rolls in the opposite direction of the corner. Its safe to say that if the center of the axle moves then so does the leaf spring, being that is what it is connected to. Since the spring is moving with the body, would that not make the side its moving toward more compressed (causing more grip) and the side its moving away from less compressed, having less grip (enabling the car to tend to corner better or easier.)
Can you draw ?
Draw it out, or make it up with straws.
DO SOMETHING to get an understanding of what your are spouting on about.
The "simple" answer for you is that springs require a compliant hanger to absorb the change in legth. THAT hanger introduces 2 more joints which introduce movement which gives less control and is NOT desirable.
Efficient and effective suspension design is about CONTROL, and ideally with the least number of joits and components.
Please we need to stop, I'm running out of arse to keep laughing off
Oh, here we go AGAIN, go back a long way and do NOT "read over" but try to absorb. Cornering G on a simple radius is irrelevant to real world. I've already asid it, you can set a car up to meet good figures on those. Any car. If you want the NUMBERS that's fine, if you want handling on a track/road then it's a start but a long way from finalNot really being that i thought that point up. Stop thinking that i think leafs are the greatest, because i dont. Again you assume things. I dont think there the greatest just because i defend them, they work, and they obveously work pretty good being able to generate ove 1G on the skid pad...
Please, Slicks, try to increase your knowledge faster than your typing for once
Put that idea back in the box Slicks, it will be awfully lonely in your brain !!Ive got an idea, but i can claim its benifits from reading them... Sry unfortunetly no pics
Dont quit your day job, your no comedian...
Oh damn, LMAO
At least I'll fit in the new race seats better with less ass
"A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'
Enthusiast
Dont you all just race round ovals or 1/4 mileYes, thats why they said it understeers in the corners, cause they dont know how to drive it right?
Unlike european jounralists, ours know how to drive most cars, and the 911 is no execption.
SA IPRA cars 15, 25, 51 & 77
Sharperto Racing IP Corollas
http://www.sharperto.com.au/
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote