Me:
I agree on some of your points. Lighter is better. However, I
disagree with your weight qoute of 800-1000 lbs. I've heard that V8's
weigh some 150-300 lbs more than say an inline 4. I seriously doubt
the weight difference neglecting transaxle would be more than 400lbs.
Maybe I'm wrong, but unless you go toronado, the weight won't change
that much, and I feel the added power would make up for the weight
difference. Not only power, but torque. Not only that, but I
seriously doubt the weight difference between a SBC and a large v6 a la
thunderbird 3.8 would be very much.

Not only that, but I have no experience with Engine control modules,
but I know at least 8 people who have worked on carberated engines in
the past. There's a lot of things you miss out on if you use an older
engine. There's less technology to mess with, and when you're building
a car yourself, that could be very important.

Turbocharging a 911 might be easier because those cars are so tuned
over the ages that they know where the best place to put the
intercooler is. On top of that, I've heard that some 911's use Three
different radiators...that seems like a lot of clutter to me, so the
intercooler must be disrupting something. I believe that in order to
get proper cooling you'd have to add ducts, which means fiberglass
work, and another paint job if you're already done. I personally can't
do fiberglass, and I probably can't afford to pay somebody to do it for
me. It just doesn't seem viable to me, not when you could get a
slightly bigger engine to do the same job. Don't forget turbo
routing/intercoolers/downpipes all add weight. I would wager that a
twin turboed v6 would easily be very close to a v8. Turbocharging is a
pretty big pain in the arse, and doubly so on a midengined car.

I also have been looking at a nissan v6. The new ones are incredibly
well engineered, and you can get a slightly older one for a very good
price. The problem is, and the one that was touched upon, is that you
have to alter things. Cut half-shafts means worrying about welds
breaking. I'd have to weld new transmission mounts, as well as new
engine mounts, as well as any modifications to the frame to clear the
new engine and setup. On top of that, I'd need to route the shifter
somehow.


However, for me personally, I want as much performance for as little
cost as possible. I also want the best performance I can get, and I
think the simplest way to do that is through the v8. There would not
be major mods required, and I don't think I could easily get the same
engine specs from another engine without spending major dollars. Keep
in mind kelmarks are cheap cars, you don't see many going for over
5000. And if you invest that much in the engine, you won't get it
back. By no means am I putting down japanese components, i just think
that a v8 offers the best power, price, and availability of any engine
option possible. I think 300 HP is an ideal figure to shoot for. The
914 trans should be able to hold that much without death. I've seen
930's go for 2500, by the way.

Engine choice is very much a matter of opinion, so don't think I'm the
wisest of the bunch, and again, in no way am i trying to put down you
or anybody else. I just think that's the BEST option for a Kelmark
drivetrain. Others are viable, just not, in my opinion the best.

2nd duder:
You are forgetting that the car companies have been spending million and millions of dollars to pare weight from modern drivetrains. The new stuff is LIGHT. A 4 bolt main 350 Chevy goes out the door at between 600 and 625 lbs with an aluminum intake, The 3.8 Ford weighs 350#, the V6 Buick at about 365 with an aluminum intake, not that I would advocate using either of them. If you don't go with the TH 425, them what. I know of no affordable, light weight options that will take the kind of abuse that I would like to dish out. In addition to all of that, how do you expect to put all of that V8 torque to the ground? If you could get a Kelmark to say, 2000# you will fry the tires any time you try to put gobs of torque to the ground.

> I also have been looking at a nissan v6. The new ones are incredibly
> well engineered, and you can get a slightly older one for a very good
> price. The problem is, and the one that was touched upon, is that you
> have to alter things. Cut half-shafts means worrying about welds
> breaking.

Nobody in his right mind would try to splice axles. Recutting the splines to match whatever CV joint you are adapting to, is the way do this safely. It is done all the time to narrowed rear ends.

> I'd have to weld new transmission mounts, as well as new
> engine mounts, as well as any modifications to the frame to clear the
> new engine and setup. On top of that, I'd need to route the shifter
> somehow.

If this gives you pause, perhaps you should stick with a VW set up.

> However, for me personally, I want as much performance for as little
> cost as possible. I also want the best performance I can get, and I
> think the simplest way to do that is through the v8. There would not
> be major mods required, and I don't think I could easily get the same
> engine specs from another engine without spending major dollars.

Don't be silly. The Northstars are 300 hp in the late cars, but you are stuck with an auto magic transaxle. Lots of others are getting close to that mark, to boot.

> Keep
> in mind kelmarks are cheap cars, you don't see many going for over
> 5000. And if you invest that much in the engine, you won't get it
> back. By no means am I putting down japanese components, i just think
> that a v8 offers the best power, price, and availability of any engine
> option possible.

The bug a boo here is the Transaxle. What are you going to use?

> I think 300 HP is an ideal figure to shoot for. The
> 914 trans should be able to hold that much without death.

Instant death if you use 1st gear, and if rebuilt and never abused, it will last a while. But not a long while, and not with a heavy flywheel or big tires. Check out the V8 914 sites if you think I am exagerating.

> I've seen 930's go for 2500, by the way.

I believe that used ones can be had for that, but by the time you get the ring gear flipped and the box rebuilt with the parts that will take the torque of a V8, and add the adapter and the special clutch you have to run, into the mix you still end up with six grand or so. Now if I was going to use one, I guaranty I would get it for less than that, but I am tenacious and cheap. I still would be in it $4,000. I am I a big enough lunatic to do that? Sure, but I can't see any reason to go that route. Why put up with 30 year old technology and drivability when I can have a faster, quicker, better handling, better riding car that is as civilized as a stock Ford Taurus or a Coupe de Ville?

Me:
Not all of us can afford or find Northstar engines to put in our
cars...and I don't think there's any way I'll ever put an automatic in
my car.

Also, if you invest in the 930 transaxle, you can go right up to 700HP,
according to renegade. That would make for a hell of a car, and with
the V8 that kind of performance is readily attainable.

If I could drop 2500 on an Olds Aurora engine, I would. But I don't
have that cash. If I could put a 20b in, I'd do that first, and that's
about as techy as you get. It's just not affordable, and not easy
either.

Duder:
> Not all of us can afford or find Northstar engines to put in our
> cars...and I don't think there's any way I'll ever put an automatic in
> my car.

The engines go for less than $1,500 on eBay. I can buy a whole rolled Cadillac for $1,200, and sell the stuff I don't need to defray the cost of th car. I agree about the auto magic. I will look into whether you can set up an electronic override for the Northstar gearbox. If it is feasable, the idea of an F-1 "paddle shift" set up would be VERY cool. I just need to do the research on the servo control of the valve body when business slows down toward Christmas.

> Also, if you invest in the 930 transaxle, you can go right up to 700HP,
> according to renegade. That would make for a hell of a car, and with
> the V8 that kind of performance is readily attainable.

Yes, but you will be in it $6,000 +

> If I could drop 2500 on an Olds Aurora engine, I would. But I don't
> have that cash. If I could put a 20b in, I'd do that first, and that's
> about as techy as you get. It's just not affordable, and not easy
> either.

Its no harder than putting in a SBC.