Push for diesel

[Clivey]

true, but that does nor prevent them to also perform...

Hence my use of the word "usually" in that post.

well put Clivey. I was just thinking your exact 320d vs 320i or 325i conundrum recently. Perhaps a good comparison in engine stats is golf GTI vs GTD in terms of capacity, turbocharging, direct injection etc.

Precisely; The Golf is an excellent example of this, and in fact I was going to use the Golf as the example in my post, but as we were already talking about the 3-Series...

I mean: I could now sell my C4 (1.6 diesel) and buy the VTS 180BHP for the same amount of money, but the running costs would be too much (for a car I mainly use for commuting).

Well, they cost about the same. The GTI is significantly faster and GTD more frugal.

So that's that sorted, petrol for performance and diesel for economy. But in the end it's a personal choice.

Indeed. Hopefully I'll be moving closer to work in the medium-term future...and the reduced running costs of a car will enable me to get something a little less sensible...

[Ferrer]

The new petrols though if you do sensible driving aren¡t bad at all. The Minis for instance are astonishing. They could even make sense for commuting.

[Clivey]

The new petrols though if you do sensible driving aren¡t bad at all. The Minis for instance are astonishing. They could even make sense for commuting.

I hear you...but for the purchase price of one of the new-shape Minis you could buy a used Boxter S or S2000 in excellent condition!

[group c n b man]

The best diesels at the moment I'd say are as follows.
4cyl - Mercedes Benz 250CDI. 202bhp, 500nm torque, 55mpg and 134 CO2/km.
V6 - Jaguar 3.0D. 271bhp, 600nm torque, 42mpg and 179 CO2/km.
I6 - BMW 40d. 301bhp, 600nm torque, 40mpg and 181 CO2/km.
V8 - Audi TDI. 345bhp, 800nm torque, 37mpg and 199 CO2/km.
V12 - Audi TDI. 493bhp, 1000nm torque, 25 mpg and 298 CO2/km.

any other ideas?

[henk4]

The best diesels at the moment I'd say are as follows.
4cyl - Mercedes Benz 250CDI. 202bhp, 500nm torque, 55mpg and 134 CO2/km.
V6 - Jaguar 3.0D. 271bhp, 600nm torque, 42mpg and 179 CO2/km.
I6 - BMW 40d. 301bhp, 600nm torque, 40mpg and 181 CO2/km.
V8 - Audi TDI. 345bhp, 800nm torque, 37mpg and 199 CO2/km.
V12 - Audi TDI. 493bhp, 1000nm torque, 25 mpg and 298 CO2/km.

any other ideas?

often forgotten, the Toyota 4.5 D4D V8, only 282 BHP but 650 NM and 270 g/km. Unfortunately they only supply it in the Landcruiser (hence the stupid CO2 figure), and only in the Toyota version, not even the Lexus.

The 3.6 V8 from the landrover (based on the 2.7 liter PSA/Ford engine) 272 BHP and 640 NM, 294g (in the Range Rover). It is about to be discontinued, the original V6 could be taken to three liter as in the Jaguar, which also the C5 and C6 Citroens have, with less power (240) and torque (450) as the transverse gearbox cannot cope with more. (my C5 currently has 468 and the box still lives), but obviously not the V8.

In the trend of downsizing also the Mercedes and BMW V8 were dropped not so long ago.

[Ferrer]

Pieter, apparently the 3.6 litre V8 in LRs will be replaced by a 4.4 litre V8 diesel engine of Ford origin, apparently originally meant to fit US Ford trucks but cancelled after it was clear they had no money to invest in things people wouldn't buy.

[henk4]

Pieter, apparently the 3.6 litre V8 in LRs will be replaced by a 4.4 litre V8 diesel engine of Ford origin, apparently originally meant to fit US Ford trucks but cancelled after it was clear they had no money to invest in things people wouldn't buy.

My relatives in Canada drive US trucks with diesel power....but they use trucks to actually tow something.

[Ferrer]

My relatives in Canada drive US trucks with diesel power....but they use trucks to actually tow something.

But I'm sure they have the big 6+ litre engines. I don't know if a smaller one would get many sales.

[henk4]

But I'm sure they have the big 6+ litre engines. I don't know if a smaller one would get many sales.

yes, old style Ford and GM (at least the last time I saw them several years ago)

[group c n b man]

often forgotten, the Toyota 4.5 D4D V8, only 282 BHP but 650 NM and 270 g/km. Unfortunately they only supply it in the Landcruiser (hence the stupid CO2 figure), and only in the Toyota version, not even the Lexus.

The 3.6 V8 from the landrover (based on the 2.7 liter PSA/Ford engine) 272 BHP and 640 NM, 294g (in the Range Rover). It is about to be discontinued, the original V6 could be taken to three liter as in the Jaguar, which also the C5 and C6 Citroens have, with less power (240) and torque (450) as the transverse gearbox cannot cope with more. (my C5 currently has 468 and the box still lives), but obviously not the V8.

In the trend of downsizing also the Mercedes and BMW V8 were dropped not so long ago.

Just out of interest, what were the specs on the Mercedes and BMW diesel v8s? It's difficult to find any facts.

[henk4]

Just out of interest, what were the specs on the Mercedes and BMW diesel v8s? It's difficult to find any facts.

BMW 4.5 liter, 330 BHP, 750 NM, 251 g CO2 (in the 745)
Mercedes 4.0 liter, 320 BHP, 730 NM, 252 g CO2 (in the S-Class)

[csl177]

Regardless of manufacturer or model, Rudolph would approve. From the idea of a work-powering device fueled by rape seed oil and the like from the farms it was intended for, to the mighty domination in motorsport begun by Audi, it's all good. Now, let's move on to getting the world off the oil teat, as it should be. And take a moment to reflect on a 19th century futurist.

Rudolph Diesel deserves accolades never given in his lifetime.

[henk4]

Regardless of manufacturer or model, Rudolph would approve. From the idea of a work-powering device fueled by rape seed oil and the like from the farms it was intended for, to the mighty domination in motorsport begun by Audi, it's all good. Now, let's move on to getting the world off the oil teat, as it should be. And take a moment to reflect on a 19th century futurist.

Rudolph Diesel deserves accolades never given in his lifetime.

I am sure Jeremy Clarkson (and Ferrer) will join us....

[culver]

Regardless of manufacturer or model, Rudolph would approve. From the idea of a work-powering device fueled by rape seed oil and the like from the farms it was intended for, to the mighty domination in motorsport begun by Audi, it's all good. Now, let's move on to getting the world off the oil teat, as it should be. And take a moment to reflect on a 19th century futurist.

Rudolph Diesel deserves accolades never given in his lifetime.

Audi in part thanks to rules that allow diesel's to compete has done quite nicely but they are hardly the first diesel racer. Cummins had a diesel entered at Indy in 1931 and again in the early 1950s.

[Commodore GS/E]

...not to forget the Covini Sirio Turbocooler, the first Diesel to break 200