The Car Situation in Europe

[MRR]

Probably if "somebody" would pay more attention to the US$ exchange rate, the proposition of European exports might become more attractive....

cars would still cost less here when you account for the ridiculous taxes most people have to pay for a new car in Europe. At least for BMW, VW, Mercedes, Audi we pay much less.

[henk4]

cars would still cost less here when you account for the ridiculous taxes most people have to pay for a new car in Europe. At least for BMW, VW, Mercedes, Audi we pay much less.

that's not the point. We know what our taxes are, but if you expert "tax-free" and you end up getting 20-30% less value in Euros than in the previous year, you can forget about your profit margins, especially when you try to establish yourself in a new market. And don't forget that many european companies have factories in the USA, but not the French and the Italians.

[Ferrer]

None of you seem to be worried. However none of you have addressed the issue of fleet averages. Particularly since they don't seem to be willing to make exceptions for smaller car companies, companies like Ferrari and Aston Martin could face the most serious trouble since theoretically Porsche, Lambo and Bentley can piggyback off VW, SEAT and Skoda. However, piggybacking might not even be an option since at one point in EVO they mentioned Porsche might not be able to sell cars in Europe anymore.

I think that is at least unlikely. There are too many economic interests that have to be taken into consideration to be ignored. I don't we'll see the disappearance of fast cars in Europe any time soon. After all we drive much faster than you apparently.

Furhtermore it's not like the US is doing nothing. The 35mpg limit has been set for 2012 IIRC. It's quite a strict rule isn't it?

[Ferrer]

that's not the point. We know what our taxes are, but if you expert "tax-free" and you end up getting 20-30% less value in Euros than in the previous year, you can forget about your profit margins, especially when you try to establish yourself in a new market. And don't forget that many european companies have factories in the USA, but not the French and the Italians.

And even some manufacturers that have factories in the US are trying to sell European made cars...

[henk4]

And even some manufacturers that have factories in the US are trying to sell European made cars...

probably because the quality of some of the US made European cars sold overhere does not stand out ...

[wwgkd]

All the Euros, I've read about half of the new issue of EVO and it sounds like the performance car industry is on the verge of a crisis. Fleet averages of 250g/km by 2010 in Belgium, 950 British Pounds tax on any car that emits more than 255g of CO2 per year. It sounds like anything more powerful than a Smart is about to be banned or taxed to ridiculous levels. Is this true? Is it that bad?

What is it that seems to have the lunatics so up in arms? Is it the speeding? The flashiness or are they really dumb enough to think these new regulations will really make a difference?

Finally, what cars seem aggravate the lunatics the most? I know SUVs, particularly Land Rovers drive them nuts, but what else? Supercars like Ferrari and Lambo? Sports cars like Porsche and 350Z? High-end luxury cars like the SL and M6? Hyperluxury cars like Rolls-Royces and Bentleys?

It's because they're flashy. In the US 80% of the oil useage is commercial or sources other than consumer automobiles. But do people focus on the other sources? No. I won't go into a 16 page rant on hypocritical people (Al Gore finally doing something about the fact that his house uses 20 times the national average of KW hours) but sports cars are being targeted because it's PC at the moment.

I personally think the Eu is just embarassed that we've had tougher emissions standards than them for so long. I mean, if we're obviously the ones ruining the world for everyone and yet have tougher emissions than them, how can they let that go on? It's unseemly.

Any crisis involving fuel or emissions leaves the industry with greater targets to reach. and Ingenious solutions are found.

And Plus, it gives the lightweight sportscar a second birth, which can only be a good thing.

I'm all for lighter cars (seriously, I almost wet my pants at the thought of a 2,500lb $15,000 Dodge Demon and I practically worship Colin Chapman,) but lets remember the oil crisis and emissions restrictions of the 70's and 80's that pretty much killed any automotive fun for a whole generation of teenagers. Well, fun with the seats upright, anyways.

[jugga]

they race diesel cupras in the BTCC(British Touring Car Championship) so diesel tech is definately there, more torque than power. Unless u live away from traffic all you do is move off and cruise in traffic so torque is good. But diesels are expensive umm.

Does diesel produce less emissions than a petrol running on decent petrol like 97??

I think hydrogen and electric (fully electric or the elctric engine being the main engine being used for alot more power than current hybrids) will be used alot soon

[Ferrer]

I'm all for lighter cars (seriously, I almost wet my pants at the thought of a 2,500lb $15,000 Dodge Demon and I practically worship Colin Chapman,) but lets remember the oil crisis and emissions restrictions of the 70's and 80's that pretty much killed any automotive fun for a whole generation of teenagers. Well, fun with the seats upright, anyways.

That's for you. We even invented the hot hatch in the 70's...

[Coventrysucks]

Is this true? Is it that bad?

Individual measures, such as higher taxes for more polluting cars, are not bad in theory, but the way they are applied in such a cack-handed manner is galling.

The London "Congestion Charge" is obviously a front for generating money - hence the increases due to fewer cars entering the zone, revoking exemptions for "green" cars, everyone complains and it still goes ahead...

Similarly, road tax; a few £X00 a year isn't going to be much of a hardship to most people who are going to be hit by the high rates, but the money is not being spent on improving the roads, or funding public transport - it is just money grabbing.

Fuel tax too, the price of oil goes up, the amount of fuel duty collected goes up, does investment into transport infrastructure go up? No.

There is so much time and money being put to waste in the UK; it is like a bucket with a hole - but rather than plug the hole and stop wasting money, the govt just refills the bucket.

Transport is a great source of revenue because the govt knows that people will not stop using their cars, and to their amazement and glee, no doubt, the general population is content to do nothing but grumble a bit about whatever increases they propose.

The one aspect I do not understand fully is how the EU can realistically implement the fleet emission legislation.

It would effectively prevent many companies from operating (forget Aston, Ferrai and Porsche - they can fudge the numbers; what about Caterham, Pagani and Weismann?), and the companies that can afford to will just move production outside the EU, and stop selling cars here, which will damage the economy, which seems rather pointless considering the utter futility of the gesture.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another instance where the type of product that a company can make and sell is so restricted on such arbitrary grounds, and can't help but think it must be illegal under another of the EU's many other crazy laws - if it can be illegal to put soldiers in danger, surely preventing them from buying a particular car must be too.

What would they say if car companies independantly colluded to deliberately restrict the type of cars people could buy?

[MRR]

that's not the point. We know what our taxes are, but if you expert "tax-free" and you end up getting 20-30% less value in Euros than in the previous year, you can forget about your profit margins, especially when you try to establish yourself in a new market. And don't forget that many european companies have factories in the USA, but not the French and the Italians.

True plus there is the opportunity cost of establishing a dealer network and service so unfortunately unless it is an established company it will be difficult to see new (as in new manufacturer) European cars here. It sucks even more since inflation is going up because Bernanke is an idiot and the price of oil is contributing by driving up the cost of just about everything.

[NicFromLA]

True plus there is the opportunity cost of establishing a dealer network and service so unfortunately unless it is an established company it will be difficult to see new (as in new manufacturer) European cars here. It sucks even more since inflation is going up because Bernanke is an idiot and the price of oil is contributing by driving up the cost of just about everything.

I agree. But hopefully when this blows over these brands will establish themselves in the US. Renault through Nissan dealers and SEAT through VW dealers I suspect will be the first.

[Blue Supra]

I run a V8 that chews stupid amounts of petrol and i will continue to do so as long as i bloody well feel like it. Im so sick of these enviroMENTALists who cry and winge and carry on about how MONSTEROUS the car is to the environment when its already been pointed out its responsible for less then 20% of the worlds emissions.

Simply put, this greenshouse/climate change thing has been jumped on by the governments so quickly is because they can TAX IT and make a crapload of money off it by playing into the hands of the greeny nutters and charging everyone money for being so horrible as to DARE drive anything over a 1L car. its LUNACY!

[clutch-monkey]

heh, bluey apparently if we started eating/farming kangaroo's here, instead of cows, we'd cut our emissions so much it literally wouldn't matter what we drove, lol.

[MRR]

heh, bluey apparently if we started eating/farming kangaroo's here, instead of cows, we'd cut our emissions so much it literally wouldn't matter what we drove, lol.

Are they tasty?

[clutch-monkey]

it's like beef only leaner. if you like marbled steak, no go..
.. perhaps goat or camel will also substitute nicely