The end of the world...

[Ferrer]

have you driven a C6?

No and haven't driven the 5-series either.

I know the C6 is very good I'm not denying that. My point is that without getting to C6 levels of road comfort the 5-series may get close enough, to the point that its superior perfomance can make a good (and even better in some cases) alternative when it comes to long distance touring.

Furthermore the 5-series can also be playful (if the 1 and 3-series are anything to go by) on twisty roads if you are in the mood.

EDIT My figure for the 520d is 5,1l/100km. Perhaps your figure is for a pre ED 520d?

[henk4]

No and haven't driven the 5-series either.

I know the C6 is very good I'm not denying that. My point is that without getting to C6 levels of road comfort the 5-series may get close enough, to the point that its superior perfomance can make a good (and even better in some cases) alternative when it comes to long distance touring.

Furthermore the 5-series can also be playful (if the 1 and 3-series are anything to go by) on twisty roads if you are in the mood.

EDIT My figure for the 520d is 5,1l/100km. Perhaps your figure is for a pre ED 520d?

Our "Autoweek" site produces figure for a 520 with 163 BHP. (10 less than the 2.2 C6.) And I specifically referred to the your qualification as "a long distance tourer". I know the BMW will easily outrun the C6 on twisty roads. (I am keen to see what the new C5 will do in this respect...)

Edit: For the 3-series "Autoweek" has the 177 BHP engine in the specs, I suppose that is also the one you are referring to, and which should also be available in the 5. (in the 3 the ECE is 4.8 l/100 km, which is really great)

[Ferrer]

Our "Autoweek" site produces figure for a 520 with 163 BHP. (10 less than the 2.2 C6.) And I specifically referred to the your qualification as "a long distance tourer". I know the BMW will easily outrun the C6 on twisty roads. (I am keen to see what the new C5 will do in this respect...)

Edit: For the 3-series "Autoweek" has the 177 BHP engine in the specs, I suppose that is also the one you are referring to, and which should also be available in the 5. (in the 3 the ECE is 4.8 l/100 km, which is really great)

Yes that was the one with the new 177bhp.

Don't get me wrong I like the C6 very much but the 5-series isn't bad either.

[Clivey]

What if someone buys an M5? Disaster...

I lol'ed!

Having said that a correctly specced 520d has to be one of the best affordable long distance cruisers currently on sale.

Agreed, although with BMW prices (after options), it depends on your definition of "affordable".

Regarding the 520d versus C6 2.2 HDi "debate", I'd have to say that overall, despite the C6 being an excellent car, I'd go for the 520d in a nice metallic red if possible.

Reasons?

- Drivetrain: BMW's diesel engines are amongst the best for performance and fuel economy, and the 5-Series is RWD.

- Residual values: Despite a possibly higher purchase price post-options, the residual values of the 5 will probably make it cheaper to own in the long term (you won't have to "bridge" so much of a gap to buy your next car). The C6 will be shockingly bad for residuals, mostly because Citroen haven't done too well in the luxury car sector recently and build quality and reliability are seen to be of an inferior standard.

- I love BMW interiors ATM and with the right trim choices, the 5-Series would suit me more than the C6. You can also see where Citroen have cut some corners with the design of the C6's interior - I actually think a C4, such as mine, has a better dash / steering wheel setup. The "next" luxury Citroen should incorporate all Citroen's latest advances though.

Also, the handling of the 5 is far superior; but in it's defense, the C6 is the more stylish, individual, interesting and more lovable car. It also has a much better ride quality and in terms of sheer comfort, it streets ahead.

I guess it depends on what you want from a tourer though. Handling and performance issues see you go for the BMW, whereas pure comfort dictates that the C6 is the better car.

[henk4]

Also, the handling of the 5 is far superior; but in it's defense, the C6 is the more stylish, individual, interesting and more lovable car. It also has a much better ride quality and in terms of sheer comfort, it streets ahead.

I guess it depends on what you want from a tourer though. Handling and performance issues see you go for the BMW, whereas pure comfort dictates that the C6 is the better car.

which for me is the decisive criterion when it comes to assessing which car is the most comfortable long distance cruiser
(During long distance cruising in the C5 I never consider its residual value, but enjoy the comfort of the moment)

[Ferrer]

Agreed, although with BMW prices (after options), it depends on your definition of "affordable".

It it was me I'd only order Xenons and the comfort seats. That'd mean that here it'd cost the same as a base C6 2.2 HDi.

The massive range of the BMW is a strong point for long distance touring. But the Citroen has the upper hand on outright on the road comfort.

[john14]

The problem is almost every person wants a BMW badge on their car. Nobody really wants a "less status and prestigious badge" like a Citroen on their car. Most people will buy a BMW 5 series instead of buying a Citroen C6. If they have enough money to buy a 5 series.

[Clivey]

The problem is almost every person wants a BMW badge on their car. Nobody really wants a "less status and prestigious badge" like a Citroen on their car. Most people will buy a BMW 5 series instead of buying a Citroen C6. If they have enough money to buy a 5 series.

You've hit the nail on the head right there. That's another reason I went for a Citroen - and I got it at a discount so don't have to worry so much about residual values!

The problem is that people that would otherwise buy Alfas, Citroens etc. are put off by residuals. Ironically, by not following their hearts and buying the German brand by default, they're worsening the problem.

[Ferrer]

The image problem BMWs can have does not mean they aren't excellent cars.

If we only take into consideration the figures you can hardly do better than a BMW these days. And that's without considering intangibles like handling.

[Clivey]

The image problem BMWs can have does not mean they aren't excellent cars.

I never said they weren't. I'll take a white M3 if you're offering...

If we only take into consideration the figures you can hardly do better than a BMW these days. And that's without considering intangibles like handling.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, but all I was trying to say is that a lot of people don't even know this, but just buy them by default because they either want to look "cool" with the badge on the bonnet or are scared of the residuals of other marques.

I'm not hating on any cars here!

[Ferrer]

They are a bit like Ferraris. Very good but not something you want to be associated with.

Probably.

[Clivey]

They are a bit like Ferraris. Very good but not something you want to be associated with.

Probably.

Precisely! That's it. It's what happens when your weasly, authoritarian w*nker of a boss gets his company wheels - he drives like a madman without indicators and cutting people up. That gives the cars the "Git factor"

It's the people that get them as "company cars" and then try to act like they're superior that spoil the image of a BMW for others. I like to think of the cars as showcases of finely balanced engineering - not overly aggressive bullies./stereotype.

[henk4]

It's the people that get them as "company cars" and then try to act like they're superior that spoil the image of a BMW for others. I like to think of the cars as showcases of finely balanced engineering - not overly aggressive bullies./stereotype.

we have an expression in Holland how to characterise the latter type of people...we call them "BMW-drivers". (Sometimes junior also accuses me of being one)

[Ferrer]

we have an expression in Holland how to characterise the latter type of people...we call them "BMW-drivers". (Sometimes junior also accuses me of being one)

You should try one. Maybe you'd like it.

[henk4]

You should try one. Maybe you'd like it.

it lacks Comfort (with a capital C)