HSV Coupe 4

[crisis]

Originally posted by Demaxy
Well comfort for one thing, the BA is alot more comforatable to sit in and drive, it also has the self adjusting movable pedals makes the driving position alot better then the holdens. They have a nicer 'feel' to the holdens as well. Ford as better value for money as well.

Have you actually driven them both in all thier variants or are you relying on reviews. I doubt the driving position is a lot better given there is nothing wrong with the position in the Holden. As for nicer "feel", that comments ambiguoty is surpassed only by its subjectiveness. Finally how is the Ford better value. Try to be objective.

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
dont forget the build quality

Thats debateable. I'll admit the trim in the arm rest of my car has come away from ythe plastic lock. Not good but I bet you could find similar problems with any new car. My previous camry had issues with interior trim on the doors and Toyotas are supposed to by fairly good. I dont hear too many Holden owners complain about quality. Its mostly Ford people who poin tout Holdens build quality or 1 in a 10000 who write into motor magazines. And who really knows theri agenda.

[crisis]

Originally posted by Demaxy
ohh yeah thanks i forgot about that one but i dont know how. My dads old VR commodore Equipe had the electronic retracting aerial and one day he turned the kay and the aerial went up and kept going till it fell out and we drove it over to holden and the small motor driving the aerial was going the whole way there. lol stupid POS. So after that car he bought a Subaru Forester and now he's on his third Forester.

Give me a break. The aeriel in the Commodore is probably made in the same factory in Taiwan as the one in the Subaru. I hope the Subeys aerial is ok!

[fpv_gtho]

Originally posted by crisis
Thats debateable. I'll admit the trim in the arm rest of my car has come away from ythe plastic lock. Not good but I bet you could find similar problems with any new car. My previous camry had issues with interior trim on the doors and Toyotas are supposed to by fairly good. I dont hear too many Holden owners complain about quality. Its mostly Ford people who poin tout Holdens build quality or 1 in a 10000 who write into motor magazines. And who really knows theri agenda.

my mums camry had the same problem, the trim got wet or something and the glue let go. she took it back under warranty and it happened again

[Falcon500]

Well the coupe 4 is planned to be a HSV model only to restore some exclusness to the brand. And despite the cars all claw drive it splits the torque 38% front and 62% rear so it still feels like a RWD. HSV also claims this car to do the 1/4 at 14.3 seconds with its 0-100 being 6.1 seconds much slower then a manual GTS at the claimed 13.3 seconds and 0-100 at 5.1 seconds. Also ford are currently out selling holden by roughly 200 units (and thats including imported sales) so much for agressive marketing...
And why do holden fans keep saying the SS is better then an XR8? when the SS does 14.5@ 163 km/h and the XR8 does it in 14.2 a tenth of a second faster then the XR6T which is also faster then the SS.
And for better value the falcon is the cheapest car to fix in its class and has a higer resale value.
Reliability issues well other then a recall to double cheak some rear suspension components (which happend in the mad rush to get the cars on sale it was 1 in every 13 or somthing that had the problem which roporedly didnt result in any damge) and some ive heard with the SOHC v8 which has apprently split a few bores i heard that ages ago and heard nothing more on that one...Thats all ive heard from the ford camp so far
And holden with its current range of vehicals are well reknown for having some dodgy electrics like in AMC magazine where the fuel gauge let go and they were left stranded and when a mate of mine test drove an SS and both the rev counter and the speedo let up. And again whith AMC when they were test driving a GTS coupe and the ECU gave up the ghost. And The 300 Km/h test that motor done and the car only done 255 or so and holden claimed there were ecu problems and they came back the next day saying the problem was fixed and only clocked 260 /km/h where the owners manaul claims a lot more

[E34 Pacer]

Dude, where did you get your figures from? 14.5 for the SS? you must be talking about an automatic VN SS or something; heres a small exerpt from the december '03 issue of Motor, where the new Series 2 SS was compared to the XR8:

But the Series 2 SS is a very pacey thing. Quicker even than the Series 1 SS we tested back in May. With 235kW, it ran an unbelievable 5.82sec 0-100km/h and crossed the quarter mile in 13.97sec at a blistering 168 kays. This time around, and with just 2500 kays on the Gen III, the SS stopped the Casio at 5.77 sec for the 0-100km/h sprint and dominated the standing 400 metres in 13.94 sec with a trap speed of 169.2 klicks. Okay, it's only a bee's willy quicker than before, but it proves the numbers weren't a fluke.

And later on...

Ford fans might want to leave the room for the next few seconds. Not only is the SS the better part of a tick quicker than the XR8, but it actually outpaces the 290kW FPV GT as well. Ouch. But for all the talk, it can't walk the walk. Even with 18,000 full-throttle kays under its 18-inch Dunlops, the XR8 could only manage 0-100km/h in 6.13 sec and 0-400m in 14.37. Again, the number's are a bee's pecker quicker than before, and it's not a particularly well endowed stinger.

Ouch indeed. And no, I'm not some knob who loves Holdens, I like Fords just as much, I'm just trying to prove a point.

[Falcon500]

well im just repeating what ive got sitting in front of me and you must be somewhat thick if you think the manaul version is qucker over the auto and this is a VY SS 6 speed manaul it says there in a glossy black and white 14.5 @ 163 km/h alower then the XR6T it was tested against.

[fpv_gtho]

well ive seen wheels get the XR6T fastest with the series 1 SS the slowest and motor get the SS fastest and the XR8 the slowest so its all donwn to consistency and the methods, with the fords being more consistent and the ss jumping between 6.3 seconds and 5.8 seconds. i dont see wheels getting the series 2 ss going any faster though. and with that 260km/h GTS, thats as fast as the manual goes, the auto is the one that gets 271km/h

[Falcon500]

Strange the fluctuations there especially how much faster the auto GTS is at top speed over the manual which has 2 extra gears if im rembering correctly the manaul has a higher final drive but nothing that the calloway 300kw engine and 6 gears shouldent over come (from what i hear 6th in the GTS is reasonbly use full in them)

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
well ive seen wheels get the XR6T fastest with the series 1 SS the slowest and motor get the SS fastest and the XR8 the slowest so its all donwn to consistency and the methods, with the fords being more consistent and the ss jumping between 6.3 seconds and 5.8 seconds. i dont see wheels getting the series 2 ss going any faster though. and with that 260km/h GTS, thats as fast as the manual goes, the auto is the one that gets 271km/h

The series II has 10 extra kw which apparently translates into a bit better pull down lower. Not sure what effect it would have overall. When all of these times are so close its as much a result of consistency of driving as anything else.

[Falcon500]

Originally posted by crisis
The series II has 10 extra kw which apparently translates into a bit better pull down lower. Not sure what effect it would have overall. When all of these times are so close its as much a result of consistency of driving as anything else.

oh ok fair enough but reallymakes me curious is how both can get almostexactly the same time for the XR6T but motor can take a whole 6 tenths of a seond off with the SS?

[crisis]

Originally posted by Falcon500
oh ok fair enough but reallymakes me curious is how both can get almostexactly the same time for the XR6T but motor can take a whole 6 tenths of a seond off with the SS?

It would also depend on the individual cars. Unless motors are blueprinted there will always be differences in performance between different examples. Variations in the transmission would also play a part. Remember we are talking about a mass produced product here, not hand built ones.

[Falcon500]

Very true that and also variations in where they are running the car/track surface wopuld play a bit role in that. And some times the factory makes "freaks" as they call them where they have problems or work excedingly well shuch tings do happen

[Demaxy]

The variables bteween drivers, preperation time, fuel in the tank ect. all these can contribute to that diffrence.

If a driver knows a car and has driven one before or even had like an hour driving it just around a test course then obviously they are going to know the friction point of the clutch ect. better then someone who just sits in a car drives to the lights and guns it as hard as possible with out knowing the cars, clutch ect. also the fact that some people prefer one clutch setup as opposed to another. The amount of variables that could amount to this result is endless. So we'll probably never know. Thats why inb the end its not down to figures even though they do count it really down to personal preferance of the driver.

[Falcon500]

like my old mans datsun he like his clutch to work just off the floor while i prefer to have a little more play in my clutch