Lol gtr

[Quiggs]

do not launch your gtr or take the vdc off - NAGTROC - The Nissan GT-R Owners Club

I was driving my gtr two weeks ago and I heard a loud noise coming from the rear. I turned immediately had my gtr towed to crown nissan st. petersburg fl. They didn't touch my car only called some techs from tennessee to look at the car and record the noise, 4 days later two guys from japan to download some info from the car then left. Then I get a call from the dealer to tell me the news, and they told me that the car was driven without vdc too much and nissan will not warranty the transmission which they said was destroyed, I asked them how much to fix it they told me 20k, no freaking way I will pay 20k on top of what i just paid for the car. I called the gtr number and also talked to nissan consumer affairs got nowhere, now the car is sitting at the dealer. I know we shouldn't launch the car but why own it if you cant use this function, don't sell a car that goes 0-60 in 3.4 sec if the only way you can achieve this speed is to void the warranty , false advertising. Here is the bad news people were fearing it has happened to me and Nissan has told me there are already three people in my shoes, if you are one of these people email me, we have got to get together on this. Just think if any of you guys have taken the vdc off just a few times you have already voided your warranty, good luck what a joke nissan.

All your DSG are belong to Nissan?

[Matra et Alpine]

Understandably the guy is painting a negative picture.

BUT, sincs cars were first built, owerns KNOW that they can't push the limits of a car all the time and not expect something to break !

I get fed up with the "must be someone (elses) fault" complaining.

[Quiggs]

From what the guys over there who own the cars are saying, Nissan put a "Void me warranty, please" button on the dashboard. And without pressing it, the car will never achieve the performance that Nissan loves to tout.


Shady.

But I do believe the LC program is a devious move on Nissan's behalf. They claim
that they allow you to turn VDC off purely due to snow bog, which is pure
bullshit.

Programming a 4500rpm stall and making it accessible via a combination of settings,
not just VDC off, does not constitute a device that helps you in a snow bog.

LC was made so the press could find it. A Nissan engineer was present at the first ever magazine
test which used the LC program. (The Edmunds 3.3 0-60) Though i can only speculate on
his input.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well the way I see it Nissan from day one talked about how the car coudl be "selected" to give full performance at the track and that warranty coudl be void.
That makes sense as any decent owner/driver has a different service/maintenance schedule and planned replacement for stressed parts.

[coolieman1220]

i keep my VDC on!
keeps me in-line, it does allow me to play
the newer systems are much nicer though!

[culver]

I can't say if the driver in question did or did not do anything wrong but I can say the situation sure looks bad for Nissan. If Nissan is getting their impresive numbers with this system disabled I would call it false advertising. This isn't the same thing as a WRX owner killing his clutch with hard launches. In this case the computer is 100% incharge of all the abused systems. If this launch mode voids the waranty Nissan shouldn't include it. The snow rocking claim is week because it would be very easy to tell the ecu to limit power when the system is disabled. Of course that would mean no big numbers for marketting. If the owners had physical control of the system I would feel otherwise. So long as this is critical to getting the numbers Nissan has helped the magazines acheive I think customers should expect to use the product "as advertised".
This doesn't mean the owner in question didn't actually abuse his car.

[Ferrer]

i keep my VDC on!
keeps me in-line, it does allow me to play
the newer systems are much nicer though!

No, traction control and/or stability control always get in the way of fun.

[baddabang]

Should have bought a ZR-1.

[NSXType-R]

Well, I dunno. If you abuse your car enough, you will destroy your car. Simple enough.

Since the car is relatively new, I guess you could assume that the owner didn't even properly break in the car. So there you go. Failures are going to happen. And the owner is retarded for even complaining, assuming that he didn't follow the proper maintenance procedures.

[h22a]

its no different to the launch control on the E46 M3...you get three launches then the warranty is voided. its like what nsxtyper said...if you treat your car like its a race car expect shit to break

[culver]

It seams lousy that any of these companies would design a launch control system which was clearly designed to produce a few good magazine numbers but NOT survive regular use. I do no think it is reasonable to say 3 launches and the warranty on your sports car is void. What's next, a G-meter that voids your warranty if you pull over .99G in a corner? Again, the computer in both cases is 100% in control of the launching process. If the engineers can't build in some reasonable margin of error perhaps they shouldn't include that feature.

Imagine if Mitsubishi included a use adjustable boost control knob on the Evo. Then Mitsubishi wows the world with the incredible 1/4 mile time of the new car. All you have to do is adjust that knob to "11". Of course the first time you turn it up to 11 the engine warranty is fried. Even worse, we find that the way Mitsubishi got all that extra power was by running the engine really lean and hot. Yes, they could say "we warned you" but really, that's just poor form. If you are going to market that performance as part of what makes the car great don't void the warranty when people use it.
Can you imagine if Honda had voided the warranty of any S2000 which was rev'ed past 8000 RPM!

[Matra et Alpine]

CUlver, you are getting race car performance for 1/10th of a race car price.
It's a bit much to esxpect it to have street car reliability when used in race car mode.
As stated often, drivers should know enough about the machines they buy/drive to know when pushing it too much is too much
Personally, as I said, if I abuse a car then I expect that *I* am responsible for extra servicing, extra maintenance, early replacement of parts. My experience with the RX-8 is the local dealer is brilliant as I've always let him know when I've hillclimbed it, raced it, trackdays, tarmac and even stage rallies. So far 2 major component replacements under warranty ... whcih they COUDL have attributed to it's usage, but didn't .... coz they KNOW I am sympathetic to the vehicle AND I fettle it before and after events !!
Anyone who expects to match ANY manufacturers best 0-60 times is goign to destroy their clutch if they use it all the time -- and possibly tear driveshfts too

Revs aren't an issue for manufacturers now as the all ECUs rev limit !!

[TehRacer]

Imagine if Ferrari or Porsche voided warranty if you drive the car as it's meant to be driven. If he did not properly break the car in then he is to blame. But assuming eh did there is no reason the transmission on an 80 thousand dollar "performance" car should just blow and not be covered because you were driving a fast car fast.

[culver]

CUlver, you are getting race car performance for 1/10th of a race car price.
It's a bit much to esxpect it to have street car reliability when used in race car mode.
As stated often, drivers should know enough about the machines they buy/drive to know when pushing it too much is too much
Personally, as I said, if I abuse a car then I expect that *I* am responsible for extra servicing, extra maintenance, early replacement of parts. My experience with the RX-8 is the local dealer is brilliant as I've always let him know when I've hillclimbed it, raced it, trackdays, tarmac and even stage rallies. So far 2 major component replacements under warranty ... whcih they COUDL have attributed to it's usage, but didn't .... coz they KNOW I am sympathetic to the vehicle AND I fettle it before and after events !!
Anyone who expects to match ANY manufacturers best 0-60 times is goign to destroy their clutch if they use it all the time -- and possibly tear driveshfts too

Revs aren't an issue for manufacturers now as the all ECUs rev limit !!

I'm not sure I would call it race car performance. Then again most US racing is from a rolling start so 0-xx times aren't as important.

Anyway, you have a point and yes, Nissan does say this will void the warranty. At the same time, Nissan is hyping the capabilities of the car but the car clearly isn't designed to truely handle the performance it is capable of generating. I might be more forgiving if it say burned a clutch rather than fragged the gearbox.

Consider a different angle; cars almost always have rev limiters. Also, the computer shifted DSG cars have limiters that prevent a shift which would cause an over rev condition. Would we think it's OK for a manufacture to let the motor rev to a level where damage could occure even if it meant a better 0-60 time? This is what Nissan has done. They have setup a condition where it is very easy to do serious damage to the car by replicating the performance Nissan uses to sell the car. I haven't heard of Porsche or GM voiding warranties because people decide to accelerate hard. They might not agree to replace your clutch but that's not a $20k gearbox.

Why is it that Nissan can't achieve this performance without putting the car at such a substantial risk? If this mode is indeed just for "snow" as Nissan claims why don't they limit power when engaged. I'm sure a pathetic 300hp would be enough to clear a snow bank.

I'm not saying Nissan has violated any law (though a lawyer might find one). I am saying that bragging about the car's performance is questionable if that performance was achieve by using a mode which for all intents and purposes Nissan says DON'T USE. I guess it's kind of like when Mitsubishi was giving away SCCA memberships with the purchase of some car (Evo?). The catch was if they caught you autocrossing the car they claimed "racing" and voided sections of the warranty. Learn to race and be a driving enthusiast… but not in this car. Nissan is doing something similar, “buy our super fast car. Brag about its capabilities… but only use them 3 times or we void the warranty on an under sized transmission.

Again individually either action is fine but combining the two is questionable.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I agree with Culver
Matra has a point while saying that if you use a car in the wrong way then it will be ruined very soon, but isn't the case imo.
If they are giving you the possibility to do something, it should be ok, so last more than 3 times and covered by warranty.
Otherwise, don't give me that option at all.
what's the point of owning a sport car if I can't use it as a sport car?!
As I supposed, the GT-R's performance seem to be achieved sacrificing the reliability of the whole car.
And if someone is going to say that the car is relatively cheap, it's not something the owner decided, but Nissan did. they should have also advertised that being cheao it wouldn't be reliable so.
Btw, I heard of a similar problem happened to owners of the E60 M5. the engine was a little stressed it came out, and was going to be completely rubbish if not used in a way you would more likely use that of a vintage car. The chief of a local BMW garage told me that they weren't going to repair/substitute the engines even if the cars (IIRC 4) were relatively new and used properly, even if he was also saying "this is bulls**t". that button to switch the power from 400hp to 500hp was probably more important than what owners thought. IIRC they later updated the ECU's software, but I don't know if it solved the problem.