Ford Mondeo (4th gen) 2007-2013

[Clivey]

GM has had some flop before and in fact in either directions. The Manta flopped there, the Sintra flopped here. Despite that GM probably choose to make this move (and Ford may eventually do the same with the Fiesta for instance) propbably becuase their situation is so desperate. They need anything that can save them. If that's the Astra then so be it.

Well as I said, there's no reason it shouldn't work - the Mk1 Focus did quite well in the 'States judging by what I've read, and it's got to be better than most of the usual domestic boxes.

The fact that it's unknown, if that's the problem, is GM's fault aline though. It's propblem that has afflicted many other good cars, like the Lancia Thesis. Pormotion is basic these days if you want to sell anything. However once known there should theoretically be no reason for it to flop. Interestingly I was reading an article about Starbucks this morning and there was the concept of latte which were american people who dig european things (simplifying). Perhaps though it's at the wrong price point?

That would maybe be a good marketing strategy, although whether GM is "savvy" enough to pull it off is another matter. Surely though traditional advertising would work just as well - whenever a new car (without a predecessor under the same name) is launched they have to do it anyway (e.g. Chrysler PT Cruiser, Pontiac Solstice etc.).

If they did want to pursue the "premium European" strategy, they need to expand the model range to include more luxury features and a greater engine range. It's amazing how much a nice set of wheels and some smatterings of chrome or carbon-fibre (on the grille etc.) make a difference to a car's looks.

You see premium European cars have succeeded largely in the American market. Like Starbicks, they are expensive compared to the competition. People want Volkswagen-made Audis not Ford-made Lincolns. However the Astra isn't a premium car and it's not presented like one either. It's badged as a Saturn. So it's an economy family car. And yet out of the Focus/Caliber/Cobalt/Astra group it is the most expensive. Actually it's $1,410 more expensive than the next one. So in a way it falls in a no mans land. And that's bad.

Agreed - although the Astra is a better car than the US-market Focus/Caliber/Cobalt. The biggest problem is as you said, basically "bums on seats".

It basically needs better petrol engines, which are being introduced, and an independent rear suspension. Other things are just nitpicking.

I'm very surprised they didn't introduce it with the 2.2 Ecotec as the "bread and butter" of the range to be honest. I know it's all about time and cost but there's no point in even launching the car if you're only going to do a half-arsed job.

Having driven both Astra and Euro 2006 Focus, the absence of independent rear suspension is almost completely unnoticeable in the Astra unless you're on a racetrack or a very wide, empty road where you can drive at ten tenths. - I'd even wager that on a tight, bumpy, unforgiving road, the Astra would be more agile than the Focus due to better bump absorbing (the Focus crashes about a fair bit). Both cars have roadholding that would shame even sports-cars from not too long ago.

My class leader? Tricky question but probably still the Golf. Or the Focus if you are on a budget. Money no object, the 1-series is brilliant though.

I can understand the Golf being anyone's "top choice", but I disagree with anyone that says it's clear-cut. IMO the best car in C-segment depends on how much you have to spend and what engine/bodystyle you want.

I bought the C4 because IMO it was the best 55+mpg diesel for the price. If however I wanted something more "2.0-litre 150-ish BHP" (i.e. your car*), I'd probably have to spend a lot longer making a choice. That would include the 150ps 1.9CDTi Astra SRI, Golf GT-Sport, C4 2.0HDi (even though it's less powerful it makes-up or it with the rest of the package), and if I could afford them, the 1-series and Volvo C30.

* Although your car is a few BHP up on that because it's a damn good engine.

Back on-topic though: What's to stop the new Mondeo with the 2.5-litre engine being successful in the US?

[Ferrer]

I can understand the Golf being anyone's "top choice", but I disagree with anyone that says it's clear-cut. IMO the best car in C-segment depends on how much you have to spend and what engine/bodystyle you want.

I bought the C4 because IMO it was the best 55+mpg diesel for the price. If however I wanted something more "2.0-litre 150-ish BHP" (i.e. your car*), I'd probably have to spend a lot longer making a choice. That would include the 150ps 1.9CDTi Astra SRI, Golf GT-Sport, C4 2.0HDi (even though it's less powerful it makes-up or it with the rest of the package), and if I could afford them, the 1-series and Volvo C30.

* Although your car is a few BHP up on that because it's a damn good engine.

Of course if you look on a version per version basis there's not going to be clear winner. However if you look at the range as a whole, the Golf makes for a compelling option.

It has a good and refined chasis with all the latest developments. Their petrol engines are top-notch, especially the very interesting 1.4 TSI engines. Their diesel engines are lacking a bit, but when Volkswagen puts the new common rail diesels there that'll be solved. And it's also got the cutting edge dual clutch DSG gearbox.

Furthermore, it's got good quality, good image and rock solid residuals.

And yet I'd never buy it, I just can't like it. But very probably it's the benchmark for the segment.

Back on-topic though: What's to stop the new Mondeo with the 2.5-litre engine being successful in the US?

Lack of an auto? Too pricey?

Except for that it should succeed.

[Clivey]

Of course if you look on a version per version basis there's not going to be clear winner. However if you look at the range as a whole, the Golf makes for a compelling option.

Except that's precisely the opposite of my point - I considered just about every new-ish car in the category and found that the C4 was the one I could barely find fault with.

My criteria (briefly - for a daily driver): A C-segment hatchback that manages over 40 MPG in town, is comfortable cruising along the motorway (and when I'm stuck in traffic), looks interesting and performs reasonably well when I'm on the right road for more enthusiastic driving.

The 147 - Too old in terms of design, the least safe, flaky quality.
The 1-Series - Too expensive, junior-repmobile image, don't like the front-end styling, everything's optional at extortionate cost.
The A-Class - Only just affordable, not sporty enough.
The Astra - 1.7CDTi engine outdated, missing desirable specification and lack of cubby holes in the cabin.
The C30 - Only 4 seats, expensive and hadn't been on the market long enough to find cheap enough used examples.
The Civic - Too expensive, the only diesel is too big (purchase price, insurance costs, fuel bills) and once again, hadn't been on the market long enough to find cheap enough used examples.
The Focus - Just horrible apart from the handling/engine/bootspace.
The Golf - Too bland (only top-of-the-range models have any styling details on top of the basic shape), lacking desirable features, the same "repmobile" image as the BMW and expensive.

It has a good and refined chasis with all the latest developments. Their petrol engines are top-notch, especially the very interesting 1.4 TSI engines. Their diesel engines are lacking a bit, but when Volkswagen puts the new common rail diesels there that'll be solved. And it's also got the cutting edge dual clutch DSG gearbox.

Furthermore, it's got good quality, good image and rock solid residuals.

And yet I'd never buy it, I just can't like it. But very probably it's the benchmark for the segment.

Why is that, then (that you can't like it)? As I said - I'd consider it if I were looking for a 2.0-litre and had that sort of money to spend, but I'm glad we agree that
the 1.9-litre 105BHP diesel isn't the greatest.

Lack of an auto? Too pricey?

Except for that it should succeed.

Hmmm, I didn't realise they'd not yet released an autobox for the 2.5 - they have for the 2.3, though. My guess is that'll be added as the range expands.

As for the price: If you honestly compare it to the domestic competition, you can't tell me it's not worth it...!

[Ferrer]

Except that's precisely the opposite of my point - I considered just about every new-ish car in the category and found that the C4 was the one I could barely find fault with.

My criteria (briefly - for a daily driver): A C-segment hatchback that manages over 40 MPG in town, is comfortable cruising along the motorway (and when I'm stuck in traffic), looks interesting and performs reasonably well when I'm on the right road for more enthusiastic driving.

The 147 - Too old in terms of design, the least safe, flaky quality.
The 1-Series - Too expensive, junior-repmobile image, don't like the front-end styling, everything's optional at extortionate cost.
The A-Class - Only just affordable, not sporty enough.
The Astra - 1.7CDTi engine outdated, missing desirable specification and lack of cubby holes in the cabin.
The C30 - Only 4 seats, expensive and hadn't been on the market long enough to find cheap enough used examples.
The Civic - Too expensive, the only diesel is too big (purchase price, insurance costs, fuel bills) and once again, hadn't been on the market long enough to find cheap enough used examples.
The Focus - Just horrible apart from the handling/engine/bootspace.
The Golf - Too bland (only top-of-the-range models have any styling details on top of the basic shape), lacking desirable features, the same "repmobile" image as the BMW and expensive.

I see your point but I think you are rather limiting it. What I mean is that when you consider a certain car to be a class leader you've got to consider the whole range not the model that suits you best. If I did that I'd consider the 1-series to be top of the tree and yet I don't think it is, but it suited what I wanted/needed.

I mainly agree with your analysis, but I still think the Golf's the best. Another interesting alternative to consider is the new cee'd. Zero cred and image but it seems to be a good car with excellent diesel engine especially. And in 3 door form it's quite a looker.

Ultimately, like the supercar discussion, it all comes down to subjectivity. So we porbably won't agree.

Why is that, then (that you can't like it)? As I said - I'd consider it if I were looking for a 2.0-litre and had that sort of money to spend, but I'm glad we agree that
the 1.9-litre 105BHP diesel isn't the greatest.

I think I have the same problem as you, I just can't get round the styling. It's just too bland and too tall. The Scirocco seems to solve that, but annoying it's wider (why?) and it'll probably be even more expensive as well as not having what for me is the strongest selling point for the Golf, the twincharged engines.

Thing is if I was to buy a Golf I'd probably buy a Seat Leon, altough that doesn't have the twincharged engines either. Damn...

Hmmm, I didn't realise they'd not yet released an autobox for the 2.5 - they have for the 2.3, though. My guess is that'll be added as the range expands.

As for the price: If you honestly compare it to the domestic competition, you can't tell me it's not worth it...!

I can. But can they?

[Clivey]

I see your point but I think you are rather limiting it. What I mean is that when you consider a certain car to be a class leader you've got to consider the whole range not the model that suits you best. If I did that I'd consider the 1-series to be top of the tree and yet I don't think it is, but it suited what I wanted/needed.

Sorry, it seems we've misunderstood each other - that's not what I meant at all, lol.

I simply meant that out of the models that were available to me, the C4 VTR+ HDI was the one that best fitted my criteria. I didn't mean to sound like I was saying that the C4 was the class leader across the board.

I mainly agree with your analysis, but I still think the Golf's the best. Another interesting alternative to consider is the new cee'd. Zero cred and image but it seems to be a good car with excellent diesel engine especially. And in 3 door form it's quite a looker.

The "best" Golf I could have bought for the money I paid for the C4 would have been a 1.9TDi S that would have been at least 6 months older and with twice the mileage (about 20,000 miles). Not only does it look extremely bland and offer no excitement or any "cool factor" at all next to the C4, but it's missing most of the Frenchie's spec list too.

Ultimately, like the supercar discussion, it all comes down to subjectivity. So we porbably won't agree.

I think I have the same problem as you, I just can't get round the styling. It's just too bland and too tall. The Scirocco seems to solve that, but annoying it's wider (why?) and it'll probably be even more expensive as well as not having what for me is the strongest selling point for the Golf, the twincharged engines.

I always say "If everyone was the same (liked the same thing), the world would be a very boring place."

I need to read-up on the Scirocco, but I'm surprised it doesn't have the TSi engines...and yes, it does look much more interesting than the standard Golf. Let's just hope that it's exciting to drive and has a more interesting interior than the "snooze fest" that's in the Mk5.

Thing is if I was to buy a Golf I'd probably buy a Seat Leon, altough that doesn't have the twincharged engines either. Damn...

Forgot to mention the Leon, although I did consider it. It's more interesting than the Golf but still expensive.

I can. But can they?

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating." There's only one way to find-out.

[Gt1Street]

Their media site is becoming more shittier from day to day, no press info just pics

[Gt1Street]

Titanium X #2

[Gt1Street]

no info, sorry

[Gt1Street]

Titanium X Sport #2

[bruxell]

Ok, "Titanium X 2.2 TDCi 5dr" just sounds like a Japanese Giant robo-monster...

[Manik]

Ok, "Titanium X 2.2 TDCi 5dr" just sounds like a Japanese Giant robo-monster...

Haha, too true.

[MRR]

I don't care we'd kill for a Ford that good in the states

[Ferrer]

Ford Mondeo #24

[Ferrer]

Facelifted model #27

[Ferrer]

It still is the same "2007" model so that why I posted them here.