If you got the gumption and the money, put a new ford crate engine, Ford Racing Performance Parts [Crate Engines] , in it and a new 5 or 6 spd tranny. Along with disk brakes and some modern suspension pieces, it'd be a really nice car.
Fanatic
If you got the gumption and the money, put a new ford crate engine, Ford Racing Performance Parts [Crate Engines] , in it and a new 5 or 6 spd tranny. Along with disk brakes and some modern suspension pieces, it'd be a really nice car.
Last edited by johnnynumfiv; 02-11-2008 at 04:18 PM.
"We went to Wnedy's. I had chicken nuggest." ~ Quiggs
Enthusiast
The FE-series engines will bolt right in. This included the 390 (which was a factory option) and the 428 (which was technically a factory option, but so rare it barely counts), as well as the 427. However, the 427's intakes tend to be a tad bit tall, so you'd have to do some hood work unless, I think, you got the Low Rise intake. 427's are also expensive and harder to find, you'd probably be best off getting a 428 and hopping it up. Don't forget a 9" 31-spline rear end - nothing else will hold up except perhaps for an 8.8" - but a 9" is an easier fit.
However, if you want to keep some semblance of balance and handling, you'd probably be happier with a 351W which can be pretty easily pushed to a very streetable 425hp or a 331 stroker (built on a 302 block) which can push pretty much the same power.
Last edited by jcp123; 02-11-2008 at 04:30 PM.
An it harm none, do as ye will
Approximately 79% of statistics are made up.
Banned
It is vague to ask us for largest/most powerful engine. You could put a 460 cu in Ford big block in there with a supercharger and get 1000+ hp. That wouldn't be fun.Originally Posted by koenigseggccx
Some of the suggestions given to you so far were good-hearted, but not the most feasible...practical...or whatever word that hints that you shouldn't do it. LS7? NO. Besides the fact that you'd be poisoning your classic Ford engine bay with a Chevy engine, the swap would be very expensive. An LS7 crate engine alone starts around 13k. And...AND...an LS7 block can't hold as much power as cheaper Ford alternatives.
Ford has a new Boss block rated to 1500hp that you could consider. It's about $1400 for the block and you could safely stroke the 306 base block to a little more than 347 cu in. That's what I did to my Mustang...but I didn't get a boss block, I have a Dart block rated for around the same hp.
If you want more cubes look for a 351w based aftermarket block. Man o War blocks are rated to handle like 2000hp and Dart has some big bore small blocks too. You could stroke those to something like 440 cu in. These blocks will be heavier than the LS7, but the build will be cheaper and the blocks are stronger. If engine weight is a problem for you and you're a balla', you can get those blocks in aluminum.
I recommend you read up on the 351w builds because it is a base with a strong aftermarket and can make big power relatively easy.
Nothing is "cheap" though, so beware and don't be fooled. But in my opinion, dropping an LS7 in your car would be stupid and a Ford Crate motor will dissappoint you with its power output-per-dollar.
As far as transmissions go, I'd get a Viper-spec T-56. That's what I ordered from D & D Performance. There are cheaper alternatives that can handle the power you want but I haven't tested an aftermarket transmission for a Mustang that is as smooth as the Viper-spec. You could also pull a transmission from a salvaged Viper yourself but you'd need to fab up and locate some parts to make it work in your car.
I've seen/read people with your model Mustang with 351w based engines. I don't know the problems they ran into but it is your best interest to google their troubles or join a Mustang forum and ask them. Whatever you do, just ask a lot of questions before you start buying stuff to make sure you understand what you'll need to do to make stuff work. Putting parts in cars it wasn't designed for usually is a pain in the nuts.
Furniture
is the 351w your talking about the 351 windsor?
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Dick
Novice
i heard the best motor to throw in an old Ford was a 351w with 351 Cleveland heads. my Dad had an old Falcon with an aluminum block, but i don't know if it was stock
Enthusiast
i would say a 427.
also, the 351 is a great engine and will prolly save you some cash.
A woman goes to the doctor to figure out why she is having breathing problems...The doctor tells her she is overweight. She says she wants a second opinion...the doctor says, "your ugly".
Member
http://members.cox.net/harddrivin1le/ZL1DYNOTEST.JPG
The figures are for the "425 HP" 2 X 4 bbl 427 Ford - in this case fully blueprinted and with a true 12:1 CR and a .020" overbore) ) and the "legendary" ZL1 427 Chevy, which was THE hottest of the Chevy 427s and required 103 octane or higher racing fuel.
All figures were obtained with no engine accessories, no air filter and no exhaust system ("Gross" HP). The Ford's best result was 460 Gross HP (with headers); the Chevy managed 508 HP (with headers).
The new Chevy LS7 427 (actually closer to a 428) makes 505 SAE Net HP (with all engine accessories, air filter and exhaust system in place) and does it on 91 octane unleaded gasoline while remaining emissions legal and getting twice the fuel economy.
And no, that's not because the LS7 has "modern fuel injection."
Those (And most other) engines will make a lot more power in heavily modified form, which some liars choose to call "stock." A recent episode of "American Musclecar" was a good example of how such liars operate. That particular lie was called out on a Chrysler BB a couple of months back, when the liars in question (including the show's producers) eventually fessed up to the farce. The "stock" engines in question were actually highly modified examples that were purpose-built to compete in FAST (Factory APPEARING Stock Tire), where 500+ CIDs, 14:1 CRs, fully worked heads and forged internal parts are the norm.
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 02-13-2008 at 02:00 PM.
Banned
Yes.
The Chevy LS7 makes 505 hp at the flywheel. You can stroke and poke an a 351w to 427 cubic inches and make 505 hp AT THE WHEELS. Yes, I'm comparing a stock motor to a modified motor...but so what? The LS7 will be much more expensive than the modified motor and the modified motor has a higher potential than the LS7. I personally feel that it would be foolish to install an LS7 into his Mustang.
Also, it is not wise to quote the fuel economy for AN ENGINE...because the engine is only one part of many components that effects the fuel economy of the car.
I will repeat...a stroked 351w will make more power at a cheaper price than an LS7 and allow a higher horsepower ceiling than the LS7.
Furniture
New engines are superior to old engines.
Member
Show me one that does - using 93 octane or less pump gas, a street-able cam, real mufflers and normally aspirated. Manufacturer's "claims" don't matter; I require actual chassis dyno sheet like the one I posted.
This LS7 powered Z06 made 468 RWHP - BONE STOCK:
LG Motorsports - C6 Z06 Dyno Graphs/2006 Z06 stock to G7X4 cam and header
Power swelled to 571.6 RWHP with the addition of a hotter cam and open long tube headers.
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 02-13-2008 at 09:03 PM.
Novice
I've seen several different dyno numbers for LS7 powered Z06's ranging from 431 rwhp to 471 rwhp. For example, another Z06 dyno from your LG
LG Motorsports - C6 Z06 Dyno Graphs/2006 Z06 before and after. LG Pro\'s with cats, K&N, DynoTune
But no matter...do you realise what you are doubting? You are doubting that I can find a 351w based MODIFIED motor that makes as much hp as a stock LS7. That's easy...real easy.
This Mustang made 466 rwhp at 5750 rpms and 464.2 rwtq at 4750 rpms on a notoriously stingy Mustang Dyno with a 351w motor stroked to 410 cu in...on pump gas...N/A.
Here is a quote from the guy who owns the car...
His compression ratio is 10.5:1.It was 80+ degrees and the car was still quite warm when we did the last run. I was tempted to cool the manifold with a wet towel, but decided not to in order to get a more "real world" reading. I did have Mark change the vehicle weight input from the 3,000 lbs. we had been using to a somewhat more accurate 3,200 lbs. (With driver, I'm fairly certain it's actually closer to 3,400 lbs.) Total timing was set at 34 degrees and I was running 93 octane. Considering how mild and streetable this engine was designed to be, and it is, I was pretty pleased with the results. I got 18.74 mpg cruising at about 77 mph in 6th gear on the interstate with the AC on on the way back.
He says he spent $9,500 on the motor and transmission. He has a T-56 6-speed Viper spec transmission. Here is a list of some of his other parts.
1983 GT
410 Windsor
AFR225 Heads
Comp Cams HR "Cheater" cam (.546,236/240,109)
Vic Jr intake
Kooks 1-7/8" stainless headers
Dr Gas 3.5"-2.5" x-pipe
Magnaflow 2.5" muffs/pipes
Spec 10.5" alum flywheel/Stage 3 clutch
Tremec T56 Viper 6-spd
alum driveshaft
4:11 gears
The LS7 is a fabulous engine, but when we're talking about modified motors there are less expensive alternatives that can better its power output.
Member
Virtually anything will make big power if one throws enough after-market parts at it, cuts enough metal and isn't concerned about complying with modern emissions standards. The 351W isn't any more "special" than most other engines in that regard. and I can guarantee you that Ford is packed full of modern forged parts (pistons, rods and crank).
The stock LS7 must make due with a cam that is relatively small in duration and overlap in order to comply with modern emissions standards, which the MODIFIED Ford is immune to.
I wonder how that modified Ford idles in traffic. Anyone who understands cams knows that one is hardly "mild." That cam has a boat load of duration, a very tight LSA and significant lift.
This LS7 made 571.5 RWHP with nothing more than a cam swap and headers. That's 23% more power than that Ford (which doesn't use a single original/unmodified part) makes.
LG Motorsports - C6 Z06 Dyno Graphs/2006 Z06 stock to G7X4 cam and header
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 02-14-2008 at 05:59 AM.
Super Moderator
302 with a set of aftermarket heads, high riser manifold,650 holley, mild cam and a good exhaust system will give you plenty of go (an easy 400 hp) be realtivly easy to drive,maintian and tune and it should be fairly ecconomical to drive around in.
And more importantly the lessions you learn from rebuilding and maintaining that motor can be passed onto to future projects so it makes it a ecconimcal choice and a perfect tool to learn with.
Lifts heavy things and hits hard......also eats as much as 2/3 people and sleeps 10 hours a day!
Member
That combination won't yield 400 DRIVE WHEEL HP, which is what I've been posting.
It would yield 400 Gross HP (at the flywheel, with no engine accessories of any kind and fitted with a set of open long tube racing headers):
Ford 302 V8 Engine Buildup- Car Craft Magazine
That's about 280 HP "at the wheels" once engine accessories, mufflers and driveline losses are factored in.
This 347 Stroker managed 478 HP (at the flywheel, gross but with mufflers) but that's running a radical cam and it isn't 302 CID.
Dyno Testing A 347 Stroker Small-Block Ford - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine
That would equate to something on the order of 350 HP "at the wheels) once engine accessories and driveline loss are accounted for.
I had TWO 302 (5.0 HO) Mustangs. I bought them both brand new; one was an '86 and the 2nd was an '88. My '99 LS1 Camaro made so much more power than either one of them that it wasn't even funny.
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 02-15-2008 at 12:33 PM.
Super Moderator
Your eyes painted on? if I ment Rear wheel horse power I would of said it. I dont give a flying Rats Ass what you posted you need to relaise the forum doesnt revolve around you.
Also im accounting this will be his first modifed car im suggest a rather sedate one for his first attempt WHICH I ALSO MADE VERY CLEAR. Its often not a very good idea to give a late teen a 500+hp car ive seen some horrific crashes in my time when they had 150-hp cars and also being young this motor will not be as thirsty so it will drain his wages (an experiance i hard lernt on my own falcon) but again you just started flapping your gums about power never taking these things into consideration.
This was a previous build I was going to put in my falcon if my old windows 98 computer didnt die i could show you the rough estimate the engine anyliser (version 3.0 performance trends INC. 1998 seeing as how you like bibliographys)gave me ,i rounded it up to 400hp for convience also the conditions set where a bit exagerated also worth noteing the only acsessoires I was going to use and needed on my 71 XY falcon where the water pump and the alt and further more yes this was acheived with open long tube headers (which at the time I had all intentions of running them on the street glad I didnt follow through) also australias fuel is a pretty good quality this was going to be run off 98 octane and was running a fairly high compression ratio as a by product.
If you dont like those results write into performance trends because it was their computer dyno (which can never replace the real thing but it works a hell of alot better then "bench racing" which alot of people do) program that i got these results.
And your last point is supposed to mean anything that a ford 5.0 thats 11 years older is slower then a camaro with a next gen motor (and hell everything else on the car would of seen the benafit of 11 more years of enginering) that is known to be modifed and as of this point in time the fords are at an unknown state of tune possibly even stock.
Yeah not really anything else needs to pointed out of course a modifed camaro some 11 years newer is going to be faster then an 88 5.0 which is smaller (4.9 vs. 5.7),has more restrictive iron heads(genIII heads are very good heads as opposed to fords old iron jobs which in 88 werent even the gt40 varients by then), probably struggling with emissions still (which has become a fine art on modern cars and choked alot of 80s cars badly leaps and bounds have been made on their effiancy not that you would need to be told....) , less areodynamic and anyother host of what can happen to an automobile in 11years and your stateing this fact as if it wasnt obvious? this also comming from a guys whos creditanls apprently include "easily" beating a "new" evo lancer in the "wet" with your "rwd" in a "street race"?
Your known for your tall storys but this one lacks common sense (old clunky ford vs much newer camaro) and you are known to exagerate the speed that your automobiles travel at and even post 1/4 times you havent actually run yourself (and yet berate other people for doing the same).
Lifts heavy things and hits hard......also eats as much as 2/3 people and sleeps 10 hours a day!
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