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Thread: The death of the clutch pedal

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    It's curious that in Europe manuals are mainstream to Average Joes (and many can't even fathom autos), but people with money are much more adamant to autos in performance cars, while in the US it seems to be the other way round.
    I think that's because in Europe an automatic gearbox has always been a pretty expensive option on most cars while in the US there are a lot of (non luxury) cars sold with an automatic as standard equipment.

    Take a look at Chrysler, automatics standard across the line*. A Dodge Challenger; the base model is automatic only. You need the more expensive versions if you want a manual. Those are just two examples of course and there are probably many exceptions. But generally and automatic gearbox is much more common as standard equipment in the US.

    That's completely the other way around when compared to Europe.

    *A 4-speed on the Chrysler 200. A 4-speed in 2011, really??
    Last edited by Lagonda; 10-19-2011 at 03:09 PM.

  2. #47
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    Then there are those who do not even bother with automatics (at least here), like Mazda (pretty much non-existent throught the entire range).

    It's also due to the different nautre cars and driving conditions as we've always pointed out.
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  3. #48
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    Paddles and clutchless are just a fad IMO.

    Manual trannys will always be there.
    When people realize how expensive its to repair a paddle/clutchless these cars will be sold for pennies.
    Paddles are only for poseurs who never drive their cars fast enough.

    Remember this is how Lamborghini began
    Ferrari clutches vaporized when driven hard.

    This is an endless cycle.
    They begin making sport cars so comfortable for daily driving that they don't last when driven hard.
    Until a new purist appears beginning a new cycle.
    Now the latest purist appears to be Pagani so they use manuals.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big time View Post
    Now the latest purist appears to be Pagani so they used manuals.
    Fixed.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  5. #50
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    Paddles ( they still have clutches ) aren't really any more expensive to repair !
    The selectors are designed to operate sequentially ( same as bike 'boxes ) and having double clutches means less stress so likely to last better AND again not any more difficult to repair.
    Now, the electronic smarts for all the rev matching etc that will be in performance cars will be complex, but aftermarket for race cars now are cheap so can expect same in future.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big time View Post
    Paddles and clutchless are just a fad IMO.

    Manual trannys will always be there. When people realize how expensive its to repair a paddle/clutchless these cars will be sold for pennies. Paddles are only for poseurs who never drive their cars fast enough.

    Remember this is how Lamborghini began Ferrari clutches vaporized when driven hard.

    This is an endless cycle. They begin making sport cars so comfortable for daily driving that they don't last when driven hard.
    Until a new purist appears beginning a new cycle. Now the latest purist appears to be Pagani so they use manuals.
    Whaaa? Are the current crop of racing stars posers? Paddles are standard at every level of racing. Sorry, but most likely manuals as we know them will be gone in a generation. Electronically controlled clutches are here to stay (and ultimately dominate) for the reasons Matra enumerates.
    Last edited by csl177; 11-19-2011 at 09:42 PM. Reason: spelling
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by csl177 View Post
    Whaaa? Are the current crop of racing stars posers? Paddles are standard at every level of racing. Sorry, but most likely manuals as we know them will be gone in a generation. Electronically controlled clutches are here to stay (and ultimately dominate) for the reasons Matra enumerates.
    Except in "normal" cars. Especially from the C-Segment and below. There manuals will last quite a bit more. Possibly as much as fossil fuel.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    Paddles ( they still have clutches ) aren't really any more expensive to repair !
    The selectors are designed to operate sequentially ( same as bike 'boxes ) and having double clutches means less stress so likely to last better AND again not any more difficult to repair.
    Now, the electronic smarts for all the rev matching etc that will be in performance cars will be complex, but aftermarket for race cars now are cheap so can expect same in future.
    They probably are less expensive to repair and have longer clutch change intervals as a computer is better at shifting gears than your left foot and arms (less wear on your clutch).

  9. #54
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    I can imagine a 'box teardown/rebuild being more expensive as two clutch packs and two laygears to worry over, but yep, should be less often
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  10. #55
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    Also as they get into cheaper cars they'll be constructed with cheaper maintenance in mind.. or just built to last the estimated life of the car so they'll just end the car's 'useful economic life' when they explode, if they go first.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

  11. #56
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    Experience of modern cars is that they are constructed for cheap/fast manufacture and maintenance beyond the add oil/water change oil/air filter is a pain. Plugs on modern cars have become an hours job in some cases

    I also hold out little hope for "built to last" given the quality of components in cars 30 years ago still running versus <10 year old cars beyond hope
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    Plugs on modern cars have become an hours job in some cases
    not on my cars
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    Experience of modern cars is that they are constructed for cheap/fast manufacture and maintenance beyond the add oil/water change oil/air filter is a pain. Plugs on modern cars have become an hours job in some cases

    I also hold out little hope for "built to last" given the quality of components in cars 30 years ago still running versus <10 year old cars beyond hope
    Yea, the useful economic life this is more likely than the ease of maintenance thing.. and by 'useful economic life' I mean 'two weeks longer than the warranty period'.
    Life's too short to drive bad cars.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine View Post
    Experience of modern cars is that they are constructed for cheap/fast manufacture and maintenance beyond the add oil/water change oil/air filter is a pain. Plugs on modern cars have become an hours job in some cases
    As opposed to a V12 Jag?
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleet 500 View Post
    I didn't realize that you can't be in control of a car if it has an automatic. What about those who run their cars with an auto on a track (like autocrossing)? They are not in control of their cars?
    Read my post again - that is not my opinion.

    My mother (who's only ever driven an auto once - a 2004 Chevrolet Malibu rental in California) doesn't like the feeling of the car changing gear for her - she actually screamed "WHAT'S IT DOING? I DON'T LIKE THIS!" when we coaxed her into trying it. She doesn't understand how it works so won't try it.

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