2008 Sebring 12 Hours

[RacingManiac]

Good for Porsche, winning the race finally and not only a class win but overall, and good for Acura to be there pretty much on the same pace.....though clearly they still have some work to do....

Audi have some odd issues to sort out, the brake issue and handling issues are probably not within their expectation. Either a supplier problem, or for the 2008, their new 900 kg R10(which means now the car is built under 900 kg with lots of ballast), has cut too many corners and threw out some robustness....Peugeot's problem is typical Sebring newcomer issue, and that was precisely the reason they went to Sebring, if I were Audi I'll feel quite threatened now for Le Mans, because they'll fix those design problem and have a more reliable car thats already faster than they are....

Not a good day for Ferrari eh....lol

[henk4]

Good for Porsche, winning the race finally and not only a class win but overall, and good for Acura to be there pretty much on the same pace.....though clearly they still have some work to do....

Audi have some odd issues to sort out, the brake issue and handling issues are probably not within their expectation. Either a supplier problem, or for the 2008, their new 900 kg R10(which means now the car is built under 900 kg with lots of ballast), has cut too many corners and threw out some robustness....Peugeot's problem is typical Sebring newcomer issue, and that was precisely the reason they went to Sebring, if I were Audi I'll feel quite threatened now for Le Mans, because they'll fix those design problem and have a more reliable car thats already faster than they are....

Not a good day for Ferrari eh....lol

If I were the ACO I would take a good look at the qualifying times of the LMP2 cars. I don't think ACO is interested in an LMP1 field as present in Sebring. Contrary to popular belief I think that the Porsche and Acura appearence in LMP2 is more detrimental for LMP1 than the diesel engined cars. The LMP1 field in Sebring was a mockery and I would hate to see the petrol engined LMS LMP1 cars succumb to the Porsche cowards who are afraid to enter a real LMP1 car. I think the likes of Henri and Hughes would more easily accept to loose against a diesel, than against a cloaked factory LMP2 team.

[RacingManiac]

ALMS' LMP2 are running different rules to their European counterparts, they do run lighter and thus was able to be challenging P1s(2008 rule I think puts European P2s 25kg heavier than their ALMS counter part, which btw was the rule as ACO wrote in 2007, with equal restrictor on both series). ALMS did this purely because we have a much smaller field than LMS and running more races, without any form of real competition in the premiere classes will do much harm to promoting the series to the fan, which in the end keeps the series going. Audi complain all they want, but in the end they want to be presented in the market and thus they still commit to a full year. If we have a full LMP1 grid as they had in Europe, they would've followed ACO's rule to the letter, but as such they are doing what they can to keep the fan interested....

What I am interested is to see a privateer RS Spyder in Europe and how do they stand against other privateer LMP2s....

The rule is skewed though, as under either rule a petrol P1 cannot possibly race against a diesel, which was the whole reason why Porsche don't want to make a P1 car, and under the initial P2 rule, when built to the letter of the requirement, a P2 can potentially match P1 Diesel over time, due to their fuel tank/consumotion and weight break. ACO adjusted it after as they realized their error, but ALMS ambraced it as it makes for better racing....

I wouldn't start criticizing Acura just yet, their P1 car is definitely coming, and it was their intention to go to Le Mans with it, so the faster they learn the better for them....

[henk4]

ALMS' LMP2 are running different rules to their European counterparts, they do run lighter and thus was able to be challenging P1s(2008 rule I think puts European P2s 25kg heavier than their ALMS counter part, which btw was the rule as ACO wrote in 2007, with equal restrictor on both series). ALMS did this purely because we have a much smaller field than LMS and running more races, without any form of real competition in the premiere classes will do much harm to promoting the series to the fan, which in the end keeps the series going. Audi complain all they want, but in the end they want to be presented in the market and thus they still commit to a full year. If we have a full LMP1 grid as they had in Europe, they would've followed ACO's rule to the letter, but as such they are doing what they can to keep the fan interested....

What I am interested is to see a privateer RS Spyder in Europe and how do they stand against other privateer LMP2s....

The rule is skewed though, as under either rule a petrol P1 cannot possibly race against a diesel, which was the whole reason why Porsche don't want to make a P1 car, and under the initial P2 rule, when built to the letter of the requirement, a P2 can potentially match P1 Diesel over time, due to their fuel tank/consumotion and weight break. ACO adjusted it after as they realized their error, but ALMS ambraced it as it makes for better racing....

I wouldn't start criticizing Acura just yet, their P1 car is definitely coming, and it was their intention to go to Le Mans with it, so the faster they learn the better for them....

Privateer RS Spyders are an illusion....The Horag team has about 12 Porsche people attending thecar...

[Wouter Melissen]

The rule is skewed though, as under either rule a petrol P1 cannot possibly race against a diesel, which was the whole reason why Porsche don't want to make a P1 car, and under the initial P2 rule, when built to the letter of the requirement, a P2 can potentially match P1 Diesel over time, due to their fuel tank/consumotion and weight break. ACO adjusted it after as they realized their error, but ALMS ambraced it as it makes for better racing....

Have you seen the times of the Creation at Paul Ricard? That is a car based on a design dating back 2002 when the cars were built to quite different rules. Nevertheless it was around 2 seconds slower than the Audi, which for more than half can be down to it being a new package and the other half to the fact that it is a privateer team. A factory developed petrol LMP1 should be 2 seconds faster. The Audi R8 was also this much faster than any of the competition.

[RacingManiac]

I actually have not seen ANY time from Paul Ricard.....couldn't find it anywhere for some reason....

Problem is not just speed though, even with a 9 liter break in fuel tank size, I reckon the petrol LMP1 car are still using more fuel than their diesel counterpart, regardless factory or not, and this is on top of the power and restrictor break the diesel are getting under the ACO rules. At Sebring a LMP2 Porsche can run 3 laps longer per stint than the Audi, because they have a less powerful engine and a lighter car, and that is also the reason why most ALMS races last year the Porsche ended up taking it, because they can stretch one less stop than Audi in most of the shorter races. A petrol LMP1 car can't do that, when they are running with less power and equal to less distance per tank. I am fairly sure that is the reason why Porsche is still shying away from going for a P1 car, because under the current rule package(and I dare say with the 25KG heavier P2 car as well) a P2 has a better chance matching a P1 Diesel car, when it is a solidly run effort from a factory level team, and that although is in violation to the spirit of the LMP2 rules, it is nonetheless the short coming of how the current rule is laid out....

BTW, Dyson team is very much a privateer effort, I have followed this team personally since their R&S MK III days, and the same people you see then are the same people you see now, through the LMP675 Lola, LMP1 Lola, to the current RS Spyder....and they have no Porsche factory hotshoe in their cars neither...

On an aside, I also think from the product performance perspective, a Porsche RS Spyder, or a Acura ARX-01B is a better car than a Lola/Pescarolo/Zytek/Courage + Judd/AER/WhatHaveYou, as most of the latters are product of compromise, where as the formers are fully optimized package. A Porsche or an Acura are designed to work with one engine/gearbox/chassis combo, and everything else are made to work with that. This kind of R&D is much less complicated and less likely to have much of the integration issues when doing it otherwise....

[forza_autodelta]

I don't think porsche will come in P1 as it's , as Audi , part of the same company... more over they're already very involved in GT2 and I think it's more important for them
will we see them in 2008 at Le Mans in P2?

[RacingManiac]

2 RS Spyders are entered by 2 European teams....

[henk4]

I actually have not seen ANY time from Paul Ricard.....couldn't find it anywhere for some reason....

strange, the UCP coverage of the event shows all the cars with all the times achieved during that weekend.....

[RacingManiac]

strange, the UCP coverage of the event shows all the cars with all the times achieved during that weekend.....

link? Its not in UCP's preview here: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/featu...s-Preview.html

Or the LMS HTTT test thread...

[faksta]

I don't think porsche will come in P1 as it's , as Audi , part of the same company...

Porsche owns a part of VW, but it doesn't mean that Audi and Porsche are parts of the same company
Subaru and Suzuki have parts in each other's capitals, too, but still they both run WRC in same category.

[Wouter Melissen]

link? Its not in UCP's preview here: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/featu...s-Preview.html

Or the LMS HTTT test thread...

Click on the slideshow.

[Kitdy]

[QUOTE=RacingManiac;792174]What I am interested is to see a privateer RS Spyder in Europe and how do they stand against other privateer LMP2s..../QUOTE]

The Spyders crushed the other cars.

The Fernandez Acura was disqualified after the race for not passing inspection, so the Dyson got 2nd and Audi 3rd overall.

[RacingManiac]

Ah I was hoping for a list or a spreadsheet or something...lol

Interestingly the fastest RS Spyder is about 4 sec off Diesel Audi's time at Paul Ricard, and 2 sec off regular P1's time....With Paul Ricard being similar in character to Le Mans and raw horsepower and top speed makes more of a difference(noting at Sebring at the end of the back straight P2 is about 25kph slower than P1 according SpeedTV's site), at the faster European tracks they are less likely to match faster diesel's time, but they might still give the regular P1s a run for their speed in the races...

[henk4]

Interestingly the fastest RS Spyder is about 4 sec off Diesel Audi's time at Paul Ricard, and 2 sec off regular P1's time....With Paul Ricard being similar in character to Le Mans and raw horsepower and top speed makes more of a difference(noting at Sebring at the end of the back straight P2 is about 25kph slower than P1 according SpeedTV's site), at the faster European tracks they are less likely to match faster diesel's time, but they might still give the regular P1s a run for their speed in the races...

This was the point I was trying to make in post#47

The ACO likes to see laptimes of the fastest LMP2s to be about 1.5% slower than the fastest LMP1 cars. (This is stated in their regulations which can be found on the ACO page). With the diesel cars running away from the petrol cars, this 1.5% in relation to the LMP1 petrol cars means in reality that they can come much closer than ACO originally envisaged.